#i think there’s also a lot more elements to this and lan xichen that i didn’t get to

[lgbtlunaverse]

Ok I have such visceral feelings about Xiyao and rarely see the specific aspect explored that I want in depictions of them but. I haven't been able to articulate why that is or what I'm looking for till now and it was bugging me. and your tags on the JGY kinnie post articulated it perfectly so. Thank

Well!! Ksdjdjskan I'm glad that my history of lying to my family, friends, and therapist has contributed to both our media analysis capabilities!! (Well when i say it like that it sounds stupid but I MEAN it)

I'm gonna use this ask as an excuse to go into a bit more detail on exactly that subject, cause I have been thinking about this a lot. I notice that anytime people go into the elements of xiyao that aren't exactly healthy, most of the focus is placed on lan xichen as the wronged party (and yeah he's the one being lied to! It makes sense) but in a strange sort of twisted parrallel to jgy and qin su's relationship, xichen is probably the one having an overall better time in the xiyao relationship right up until the reveal at the end!

To qin su, she had a loving if not physically passionate marriage with a son who died tragically young but was still wonderful and loved. Xichen had a sworn brotherhood where jgy and he could lean on each other and be honest with each other even when they couldn't be with anyone else, and despite any trouble with nie mingjue they mourned him together, carried each other through his death, and take care of his little brother in his memory.

Jin guangyao, meanwhile, has to keep up the act at all times. Somewhere in between getting taken in by his father and killing nie mingjue xichen stops being the one who will stand by his side no matter what and becomes... another person he has to act in front of. This doesn't actually change the fact that Xichen is his favourite person. That the act he is putting on for Xichen is likely the person he sincerely wants to be and strives to be as close to as he can. Jgy has put on masks all his life but this is the one he wishes was his actual face.

(Side tangent: Jgy genuinely wants to be good and help people. I believe this fully. Yes he wants to keep himself alive at all costs and will do horrible things to ensure his own safety but that doesn't mean he likes doing them or that he thinks they're justified. "Not having any better options" and "doing the right thing" are, in fact, not the same. I think jgy sincerely wishes he hadn't done any of his worst crimes and feels guilty, even while fully believing he had to do them.)

Side tangent over. You can lie to someone and love them. Sometimes the fact that you love them makes it harder to be honest. Because their opinion of you matters so much, them hating you or looking down on you is worse than anyone else doing so. Can you really handle dissapointing this person? Can you? There are a lot of people Jin guangyao lies to out of pure self preservation. I think Lan Xichen is one of the only ones where his primary motive for lying isn't just the physical consequences of what would happen if he gets found out, but also the emotional ones.

Cw for discussion of suicide this next paragraph.

So. I've been struggling with suicidal feelings basically since i was a young teenager and every single serious attempt or consideration, ever, has been in relation to a lie i've been telling (usually to my family) and it getting increasingly harder to keep quiet and increasingly more harmful to drag out. It feels so horrible that I have, on multiple occasions, considered killing myself to get out of it.

Now, jgy is a lot more dedicated to staying alive than I am. But that doesn't mean the actual feeling of it is any different to him, it's just that he doesn't see dying as a solution to problems like I do sometimes. I can say with experience. That loving someone and being around them pretending to be the person you actually wish you were but know you can't be is fucking torture. At any random moment a voice in the back of your head can and will pop up and remind you that this is fake. They wouldn't love you like this if they knew. And the longer you keep it a secret the worse their reaction will be. You'll manage to forget and let yourself be happy around them because they make you happy and the moment you remember you will feel guilt for that happiness. You're not just bad for lying, you are worse for daring to enjoy this person loving you on false pretenses.

And the fact that for jgy all this is just a repeat of shit everyone else has been saying about him for no good reason for literally his entire life? That he doesn't deserve to be here, that the people around him are too good for him. Oh. No. Yeah. Like I said in those tags. Nightmare scenario. (And then to be killed by this person for a thing you didn't actually do? Because you have fallen so low in their eyes that everything is fair game now? Fuck. Fuck. Xiyao make me want to go chew on glass.)

[whetstonefires]

Ooooof and oh yeah! Leaning into the psychosis angle offers a lot of character interest too, for sure. I just excluded it upfront because I wanted to circle in on the homophobia as emotional and narrative leverage, and particularly the internalized homophobia.

Either way, the key starring role in this take remains Jin Guangyao with his sorrowful, just-disappointed, reasonable-authority figure face on, as he gently gaslights the everliving daylights out of Mo Xuanyu.

I bet he cribbed some of his delivery from the way Lan Xichen talks about Lan Wangji.

(Sidebar what exactly do you think they said to one another, in those private confabs, about their respective experiences of the Problematic Gay Little Brother scenario? I wonder how that impacted lxc's initial reaction to lwj suddenly bringing a-yao's fucked-up disgraced younger brother home with him lmao.)

An interesting thing I'm seeing in the notes is there's a breakdown between people who feel that the consonance between the Mo Xuanyu attempted incest allegations and Jin Guangyao's marriage situation makes it seem more like he's the one who put that element out there

(because it's something that's extremely prominent in his own thinking, so it makes sense he'd think of that as a powerful avenue of ruin, and would project it out onto other people)

versus people who think it's less likely

(because he's already fucked up about the topic and wouldn't want to encourage anyone to connect him with half-sibling incest, even in the negative).

Because tbh I think we're both right; both versions are very strong, they just rely on different beliefs about how jgy thinks, both of which have foundation but neither of which can be positively confirmed. That's great, I love that.

Personally I think jgy would get a huge power trip out of knowing he's now in a position where he can suggest someone was sexually improper toward him and everyone will rush to blame that person and exalt his propriety in contrast.

I think playing that out successfully would give him a huge boost to his sense of security, and is actually in line with the kind of stunts he pulls to self-soothe.

But I don't rule out the alternative, and it picks up different parts of the themes about reputation and homophobia and society and how it leaps to assumptions based on preconceptions, if jgy set out to ruin the reputation of an eccentric Known Gay and the public took that and spontaneously projected Shocking Sexual Misbehavior onto that person without his encouragement. So, also good.

So like, I’m pretty darn sure Mo Xuanyu did not actually make a pass at Jin Guangyao.

For several reasons, like for one thing hitting on your own actual brother who is also your boss is genuinely insane behavior, in a way nothing else we know about the guy actually matches, other than his reputation for being crazy which mostly seems to originate from the same point as the sexual harassment allegations. which tracks because even with rampant societal homophobia, that’s such a crazy thing to do people would question it if it didn’t come paired with the information that he’s insane.

Then there’s the fact that if that had actually happened, there’s basically no way master spin artist jgy would have let it get out, because actually experiencing that would trigger his sense-of-uncleanliness issues so hard.

But what we see is that somehow Everyone Knows that it happened, but also that Jin Guangyao totally didn’t tell anyone, because he’s too merciful and kind and respectable. It just mysteriously leaked somehow that this private scandal happened.

(Also, to step up a meta level, the gay goth kid who was never quite accepted into his own family and wound up self-destructing was in fact guilty of the homophobic allegations spread by the powerful man who manipulates reputation for personal advantage? This is not the kind of story where that would be true. The thematic dissonance is too much.)

The only way it’s believable that mxy made a move on jgy is if jgy spent a long time maneuvering him into it, hinting and deniably flirting and just generally being maximum skeeze, just a huge elaborate incestuous honeypot, just to bait a ‘ruined reputation’ trap. Which makes no sense at all.

I don’t think jgy is necessarily above that kind of creepy grooming behavior but I do think he would hate it, and definitely wouldn’t resort to it when sowing rumors would work just as well. and expose him to less risk.

So Mo Xuanyu didn’t do it.

So what we’ve got is that Jin Guangyao systematically obliterated this kid’s credibility.

No one would listen to anything he said after being expelled in that sort of context, especially anything against Jin Guangyao, whom he now has obvious motive to smear. This was a preemptive strike against some kind of leak.

It’s exactly the kind of thing jgy would do–it targets individual vulnerability, leverages the weak points in Mo Xuanyu’s reputation into gaping chasms, in a way that associates jgy with scandal but makes him personally look better. also shows signs of jgy projecting his own issues onto others. The MO fits.

And his motive is easy to construct: Mo Xuanyu had had access to his secrets, such as Wei Wuxian’s manuscripts and probably a lot of the other ugly shit. And Jin Guangyao needed him silenced, due to some thing or other, but as with SiSi didn’t want to have to kill him.

(A fascinating thing about jgy as a villain is the moments where he yields to sentiment pretty consistently contribute to his destruction.)

But then we come around to: so why didn’t Mo Xuanyu sic Wei Wuxian on Jin Guangyao, then?

In cql wwx does have a curse cut for jgy, to keep him in the plot and create an additional open storyline to resolve, since viewers are gonna be denied romantic catharsis, but in cql the homophobia plotline isn’t there because all the gay is censored, and mxy allegedly hit on qin su instead. which is less utterly unhinged to do though still big wtf.

In the book, mxy summoned the Yiling Patriarch just to kill the Mos. (Which he didn’t even do lmao.)

So I’ve always been sort of poking at that, like if you’re destroying your own soul to get revenge, why spare the person who deliberately ruined your life?

Even if he had done the thing, it was weird! Maybe even weirder; if you’re in a headspace where making sexual advances anyone should be able to predict are unwelcome seems like a good idea in the first place, there’s a pretty good chance getting punished for them isn’t going to make you think you were in the wrong. Otoh there is a zone where he could have done it, gotten the backlash, cleared his head a bit, realized it was fucked up to do, and therefore not held a grudge in that particular direction, but it’s still weird. (And also he definitely didn’t do the thing.)

But if he was so angry, why was he not angry at Jin Guangyao? Who definitely kicked him out of the Sect, all else aside?

And then I looked at the passage in Jin sect where we swap to Jin Ling’s pov and he tells us one of the few first-hand things we hear about Mo Xuanyu: He thought Jin Guanyao was the most amazing person in the whole world. He adored him.

And being betrayed and rejected by him didn’t turn that into resentment. Even though he resented the other side of his family enough to want them gratuitously murdered.

So you know what I think happened?

I think Mo Xuanyu thinks it was an honest misunderstanding. That Jin Guangyao, his idol, falsely concluded that his gay little brother was creeping on him based on a misinterpretation of his admiring behavior, and was appropriately revolted. And that Mo Xuanyu doesn’t blame him for it. He blames himself.

He went back to his mother’s family to rot genuinely feeling like the ruination of his life was his own fault for being creepy. And died like that.

Because of that, to a considerable extent. How can you bend any of your will to saving yourself, to getting out of an abusive situation and seeking a better one, when you don’t think you deserve to be saved?

Fucks me up.

[motivationisdead]

I feel like Chapter 64 tackles a lot about Lan Xichen’s character and views, and I think it is fairly centered on him, and so I just wanted to talk about that really quickly.

*looks at how much I’ve written*… Or maybe not so quickly.

And I know this might come off as a… fairly negative look at Lan Xichen’s character, whoops. It’s… not really meant to be? Personally I actually feel rather neutral about his character. But I do recognize this is perhaps not the most positive view on Lan Xichen so if that bothers you you might not want to continue reading. Lan Xichen is an interesting character though and I simply wanted to try exploring that a little more with what we’re shown in this chapter.

:readmore:

“… I have always believed, without a doubt, that the criticism he received from others all came from misunderstandings, that what I knew how he truly is. Now, you want me to believe, at once, that everything about this person is fake, that he planned to kill one of his sworn brothers, that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him… Could you please allow me some more discretion before I make my own judgement?”

I have always felt that the relationship between Jin Guangyao and Lan Xichen is a complicated topic to tackle. Because I don’t believe it’s wrong to believe in someone you trust, it’s just that Lan Xichen’s trust was misplaced and Jin Guangyao abused that trust and manipulated Lan Xichen. Jin Guangyao is definitely the one who’s at fault here, I won’t ever be arguing against that. And neither am I trying to say Lan Xichen is responsible for any of Jin Guangyao’s actions.

That all being said I can’t say Lan Xichen is… entirely blameless either even if I do think he is the victim in this situation. Because even though Lan Xichen is very much not responsible for Jin Guangyao’s actions he is responsible for his own. Or rather, the lack of them. And I do give Lan Xichen some props for being willing to consider that Jin Guangyao might actually be guilty after all this time now that he has the evidence of it in front of his face. But it does also feel like too little too late.

And it’s interesting that Lan Xichen even says himself that he believed all the criticism Jin Guangyao received was due to misunderstandings. Without a doubt, even.

And while I’m sure some of that is a combination of Jin Guangyao acting like an angel around Lan Xichen and the cultivation world (as they tend to do) circulating false rumors to start drama about Jin Guangyao the fact that Lan Xichen dismissed every single criticism, some of which were likely coming from Nie Mingjue his, you know, other sworn brother, without even trying to look any deeper does strike me as him enabling Jin Guangyao to some degree.

It kind of reminds of this scene:

Without any exaggeration, he told Lan XiChen of how Meng Yao killed and planned to blame someone else, then feigned death and ran away. After he heard the story, Lan XiChen was also surprised, “How could this be? Maybe there was a misunderstanding?”

Nie MingJue, “I caught him right on the spot. What misunderstandings could there be?”

Lan XiChen thought for a moment, “Judging from his words, the person whom he killed had definitely done wrong. However, he should not have taken his life either. We are in harsh times, so it is quite difficult to determine who was at fault. I wonder where he is now.”

- Chapter 48 of the EXR Translation

Here we even have him excusing Jin Guangyao’s actions to some degree by first saying that maybe it was a misunderstanding and then saying they can’t determine who was at fault in that situation because they both were in the wrong. I’m not even entirely sure how much Lan Xichen believes what Nie Mingjue said.

Still, Lan Xichen knew Jin Guangyao had been involved in questionable circumstances before and yet in the future he’s shown to be unwilling to even entertain that similar such situations might implicate Jin Guangyao or be true. That definitely strikes me as willful ignorance if nothing else.

Lan XiChen had taught Jin GuangYao the Song of Clarity, keeping in mind the grudge between Jin GuangYao and Nie MingJue, hoping that they could be how they used to be. He requested Jin GuangYao to help calm Nie MingJue in place of him. Who would’ve known that his kindness made possible Jin GuangYao’s cruelty? How should he face himself now?

- Back to Chapter 64 of the EXR Translation

Whether Lan Xichen was aware of it or not by deliberately keeping with his ignorance, and not investigating any further, and simply preferring to fully trust in Jun Guangyao his inaction is what harmed others.

And Lan Xichen despite knowing about the fractured relationship between Nie Mingjue and Jin Guangyao (with Nie Mingjue even trying to kill Jin Guangyao at one point, though the novel kind of plays it off as comedic) believes that they can somehow still overcome their differences. He even purposefully places Nie Mingjue in a situation where he’d have be vulnerable with and trust Jin Guangyao.

And even ignoring Nie Mingjue’s eventual death that’s… not a healthy way to try and build a relationship between two people when Nie Mingjue already felt his trust in Jin Guangyao was betrayed, regardless of the fact that Cleansing in itself was harmless. In fact I’d say putting Nie Mingjue in a situation where he was consistently forced to rely on Jin Guangyao while their relationship was still so turmoiled—and while one or both of them were unwilling to try and rebuild it—was likely to damage their relationship even further in the long run.

Like, I have to wonder at least a little bit at Lan Xichen’s logic and reasoning behind this. It’s coming to such a point that in Lan Xichen’s kindness and efforts to have them reconcile he becomes a toxic person to be around even if he only has good intentions in mind.

And then we have this scene where Lan Xichen talks about QingHeng-Jun and Madam Lan’s story. And notably I think this is also him trying to reach out and connect with Wei Wuxian. And at first he says:

Lan XiChen explained, “When my father heard of this, of course he was in much pain. But, no matter how he struggled, he still took the woman to his sect in secrecy. Ignoring the objections from his clan, he knelt with her for the Heavens and the Earth without making a sound and told everyone in the clan that she would be his wife for the rest of his life, that whoever wanted to harm her would have to pass through him first.”

And:

“It could be said that my father did this without a care for anything else. …”

Here he seems to be placing the blame of these circumstances (or at least the marriage and the seclusion that follows) on his father but later he also says:

“My uncle… has always had a frank personality to begin with. Because of how my mother caused my father to destroy his own life, he began to hate those who behaved improperly even more. …”

Which seems to be placing the blame on his mother for being the catalyst in his father’s choices, and maybe for going along with it. And while clearly he is saying this in reference to Lan Qiren’s perspective of the situation it does seem to mirror what Lan Xichen later says in Guanyin Temple about Wei Wuxian being Lan Wangji’s only mistake, which is interesting.

And then we’re also given this description of Lan Xichen’s and Lan Wangji’s childhood:

They were two young children, who faced everyday only their harsh uncle, strict teachings, and mountains of books. No matter how tired, they had to straighten their soft backs to be the most outstanding disciples of the clan, the model students in others’ eyes. They could rarely see their closest relatives. They couldn’t fool around in their father’s arms, they couldn’t act spoiled in front of their mother.

But they had clearly done nothing wrong.

Essentially Lan Xichen (and Lan Wangji) were never allowed the opportunity to just… be kids and make mistakes. They had to be perfect. And the way this is written makes this kind of treatment out to be punishment even though they themselves have done nothing wrong. And I think the pressure of that explains a lot about how they turned out and perhaps why their personal failures (Wei Wuxian’s death for Lan Wangji; and the truth about Jin Guangyao for Lan Xichen) happen on such a big level and impact them so much when before they weren’t allowed to fail even in small ways.

These are, arguably, some of the only mistakes they’ve made (or feel they’ve made) in their lives and the impact of them on the Twin Jades is immense.

He [Wei Wuxian] spoke, “Madam Lan must’ve been a very gentle woman.”

Lan XiChen, “In my memories, Mother had indeed been so. I do not know why she did such a thing back then. And, in truth, I…”

He took in a deep breath before confessing, “Do not want to know either.”

And here, I think, perfectly outlines Lan Xichen’s greatest character flaw and mistake when dealing with Jin Guangyao.

Lan Xichen remembers his mother as kind and in an effort to keep that view prefers to live in ignorance of the full story less that image of her be ruined in some way or make her out to be someone Lan Xichen doesn’t know.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence Lan Xichen says this in the wake of learning that what he knows, or thought he knew, about Jin Guangyao might be a lie. He doesn’t want this kind image he has of Jin Guangyao to be wrong and so he’s reluctant to dig any deeper.

And I do think that’s why Jin Guangyao was able to abuse Lan Xichen’s kindness so much for so long.

[mxtxfanatic]

Anyways, the Jin sect were able to become the powerhouse sect amongst the great sects purely because the other sects did not care to oppose them, and I can imagine that this is the very reason that the Wen were also a powerhouse sect. (Disclaimed: I’m coming at this purely from the angle of what the book tells us, not outside historical context. For one, I do not know said context, but two, as important as I think that context is to flesh out some elements of the story, I think it’s just as important to not brush off what the novel literally shows us even if it doesn’t perfectly fit said historical context, as this is not a historical novel.)

When we get to the pre-sunshot campaign flashbacks, everyone already knows about all the evils of Wen Ruohan. It’s openly known that he killed the Nie sect leader out of jealousy and that this is why Nie Mingjue hates him. Lan Xichen immediately pinpoints the blame for the waterborne abyss onto the Wen, to absolutely no one’s surprise. It’s even noted that the Wen have been attacking and subsuming smaller cultivation clans around it to bolster its power, which is why like half of all the cultivation clans are affiliated with the Wen. Not to mention, Wen Ruohan disrespects the great sect leaders to their faces, and they all just take it. The Wen demand that all sect heirs and 20 extra disciples be “taught” by them? Everybody sends their children. The second son of the Wen clan almost kills all of those heirs after weeks of mistreatment? Well, they didn’t actually die, so it’s all good. The Wen burn a great sect’s most prized possession, kill its sect leader, kidnap the second son, and have the heir on the run? Well, it didn’t happen to us, so no need for concern. War only breaks out because the one sect leader who actively hated the Wen was attacked, and even then, only 3 of the 4 remaining great sects fully participate.

Now, how do the Jin rise to power? They host a lot of banquets, they subsume the smaller clans that were formerly affiliated with the Wen, they disrespect other great sect leaders to their faces while cultivators cheer them on. And everyone allows them to because they simply do not care to fight back against the Jin; this is their status quo. The only fight they can muster is to massacre the remaining Wen clan members and the man protecting them, and then it’s back to petty bickering while ignoring the genocidal elephant in the room. The first real sign of discontent with the Jin’s power comes from the Xue Yang incident, which showed that 1) a great sect leader could successfully oppose the Jin if they so chose, 2) the Jin were not infallible because they did have to appease Nie Mingjue on the issue, something the Wen never had to do, and 3) that’s why Nie Mingjue had to be killed as the only one willing to oppose the Jin (in certain circumstances). What gets me, especially, is when all these crimes come to light in Lotus Pier and Guanyin Temple, Lan Xichen and the rest of the nameless cultivators’ biggest issues seem, again, to linger on Jin Guangyao’s personal culpability to his personal relationships but not the Jin sect whose overall greed for power necessitated these actions. (Like really, fuck the sex workers and the minor clans used for experiments, I guess. Fuck the entirety of Yi City, I guess.) There’s a reason Wei Wuxian is so uncomfortable by the way the conversation in Lotus Pier against Jin Guangyao goes to personal slander while everyone ignores the more far-reaching issues with the reveal (and even how the reveals came to them).

So yeah, the Jin rise to power comes out of the same place that the Wen rise to power did: passivity and status qo maintenance.

[vrishchikawrites]

Post-post-post cannon Wangxian being completely in love in the cloud recessess as teenagers who time travelled back to their own 16-17 year old bodies on accident.

In love. Wangxian are in love. In love. Just smooph and fluff.

Like they're effortlessly in love. (No matter how much Jiang Cheng yells and ties to control Wei Wuxian, Wei Wuxian casually refuses to hear any of it, as he'd been ignoring Jiang Cheng's homophobia and hate forever by the time they both came back by accident. )

Also wwx doesn't hide his genius and every one around him is like senpai *heart eyes* (honestly he's almost forgotten how to hide his effortless genius.)

(Just FYI, don't have to include this: this Wei Wuxian has long since come to terms with all his war and Sunshot and Shiji related trauma— just FYI.)

I just want to read as much of the smooph, smushy fluff and love you can stomach writing please.

Extra points if you can show them both just effortlessly and absentmindedly flirting.

(You don't have to incude this, but: They just take like a weekend off and go raze the main Wen family to the ground casually— back late with Starbucks— "We were night hunting. What do you mean the Wen family died? So sad. We feel so bad. Don't we feel bad?" " Mm. Feel bad.")

Thank you so much for existing in this fandom. I love your fics. I love you. 💖

Xichen is proud of his brother but he can't deny that he is sometimes concerned for him as well. Wangji is a dedicated and accomplished disciple but he is isolated from his peers. Xichen has friends and confidants but Wangji is simply content to be by himself.

That is concerning, even for a Lan.

He had hopes that incoming disciples would manage to shake him up a little but that hope didn't last long. Year after year, Wangji continued to remain aloof, not expressing any interest in the disciples.

But something has changed this year. Xichen didn't even know what was going on until a few weeks into the introduction of the guest disciples.

He spots them by chance. Young Master Wei is cheerfully waving at a vendor, his smile wide and bright, ensnaring the old woman's entire attention.

Wangji is right by him, Bichen in one hand but the other…

The other is placed on the small of Wei-gongzi's back.

Xichen watches as they move on from the vendor. He sees how Wangji seems to shield Wei-gongzi from the crowd, angling his body slightly to ensure his companion can walk freely.

It is a gesture of protectiveness. It is a gesture of possession.

Xichen studies their body language carefully. Wangji seems content to follow Wei-gongzi around, his expression closed but gentle. There are no frosty glares or pursed lips. His brother, for once, looks entirely relaxed. Everything about him is loose and easy underneath all of his Lan elegance. His shoulders slope gently, his spine isn't as rigid, and his walk is steady.

The First Jade has never seen his brother look so settled.

Wei Wuxian seems happy too, his smile incandescent and lovely. Almost as tall as Wangji, the boy is the very antithesis of his brother. While Wangji is sedate and content, Wei Wuxian is nearly bursting with energy and joy. His silver eyes sparkle in the sunlight and his long hair sways with every movement of his body.

Xichen's heart softens at the glimpse of such open beauty. There's certainly something alluring about Young Master Wei. He seems to suffuse his surroundings with happiness.

There's something in the air around them.

Despite his lively mind wandering from one stall to another, Wei-gongzi always finds his way back to Wangji, looking at him with a hopeful smile and a cheerful comment.

His brother's expression is unfamiliar to him. Wangji looks like his entire world is smiling up at him.

'Is this love?' He wonders to himself as he watches his brother gently pull Wei-gongzi out of a running child's way. He doesn't miss how the touch lingers, fingers curling slightly around the slender wrist before pulling away.

There are many eyes following Wangji and his friend, and all of them have indulgent expressions. The people of Caiyi town have seen Wangji since he was a child. They know him and his nature well enough.

Xichen suspects they're just as happy to see Wangji roaming the markets leisurely as a pretty butterfly flutters around him.

"Is that Lan Wangji?" Nei Mingjue observes, stepping up beside him.

Xichen nods, "And his friend, Wei Wuxian."

"Hm," his friend says, "I've been hearing that name a lot recently. They say the only reason Jin Zuxian beat him in the rankings is because of his looks."

Xichen chuckles at Mingjue's tone, "Ah, Da-ge, you must hate that."

His friend rolls his eyes, taking a sip of his tea. "How do looks matter when you're facing down Fierce Corpses?"

"From what shufu says, Young Master Wei is Wangji's equal in many ways." Shufu had been wary at first, wondering what sort of chaos the son of Cangse Sanren would bring to Cloud Recesses. So far, Wei Wuxian has proven to be a mischievous but brilliant student. "He challenges shufu in class. They end up having loud, angry debates," Xichen chuckles because he knows his uncle, despite all appearances, loves being stimulated, "He mentions the boy often." There's a comment about Wei Wuxian almost every time he has tea with his uncle.

He looks at the two younger master's thoughtfully, "I didn't expect this."

"Are they courting?" Nei Mingjue asks bluntly, "Because your little brother is acting like a husband already."

Xichen stills and looks at the pair again. That is what's off about their body language. They move around each other confidently, not like a young couple in fresh blooms of love.

There are no tentative glances, awkward touches, and hyperawareness. Wangji touches Wei Wuxian like it is his right. Like he is confident that his touch is welcome and desired.

For a moment, he feels a pang of worry. Xichen looks at Wei Wuxian, studying him carefully to see if there's any sign of strain or distress.

He finds nothing. Wei-gongzi responds to every gesture of affection like a flower blooming under the Sun.

"Ah." He realizes, "You think…?"

"Strong bonds form quickly between cultivators with matching potential." Nei Mingjue observes, "It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Your brother looks a little too enamored for this to be a teenage fancy."

Well, isn't this an interesting development?

---

"Your hair looks nice," Nie Huaisang says, hiding a smile behind his fan. Wei-xiong always looks good but there's something particularly radiant about him now. He seems to stand a bit taller, carry himself with a bit more confidence. His gestures seem stronger, somehow carrying more authority than before.

But the hair intrigues him. There's a glittering silver hairpiece in it and the strands of ebony are tied up in a neat style.

Neater than Wei-xiong's usual style. While Huaisang is certain Wei-xiong is perfectly capable of making himself as elegant as the Jades of Lan, he usually doesn't bother.

This was done by someone else's careful, loving, hand.

Jiang Yanli isn't at Cloud Recesses and Jiang Cheng would rather burn his own hands than show even an ounce of love towards his shixiong - something pricks when he thinks about that.

So there's someone else, someone willing to comb Wei-xiong's hair until every strand is glossy and straight, before tying it up with a silver and jade pin that looks expensive.

Wei-xiong is courting- no, he corrects himself, watching his friend wave enthusiastically at Lan Wangji, 'Wei-xiong is being courted.'

Wangji-xiong bows to his brother and walks towards Wei-xiong, his gaze softer than usual. His friend is smiling widely and immediately dissolves into excited chatter. Wangji-xiong doesn't seem bothered, just nodding occasionally and watching with indulgent patience.

There's something entirely lovely about the way Wangji-xiong's eyes remain fixed on Wei Wuxian's face. It is like nothing else is more important to him than Wei-xiong's smile and cheerful voice.

Standing together in the courtyard, both clad in white and glowing under the warm light of the morning sun, they look stunning. Huaisang's romantic heart sighs at the sight.

"What is he doing?" Jiang Wanyin hisses and Huaisang looks at him, startled by his icy tone, "I can't believe he's making a nuisance of himself again!"

"Jiang-gongzi-"

"Wei Wuxian! What are you doing, messing around?"

The loud voice catches almost everyone's attention. Wei-xiong looks over his shoulder and Wangji-xiong's expression turns frosty, all warmth draining from it immediately.

"Aiya, Jiang Cheng," Wei-xiong grins but it doesn't have that sheepish, placating quality that Huaisang had seen before, on those rare occasions he visited Lotus Pier with his da-ge. This grin was full of confidence and almost... dismissal. "Why are you angry now?"

Was that tone... mocking?

Huaisang's lips twitch as Jiang-gongzi swells further with rage, "Wei Wuxian! How can you be so shameless? Imposing yourself on Lan Wangji, always trying to distract him. Think of our sect's reputation for once!"

"Do not speak for me." Wangji-xiong's voice is icy and it cuts Jiang-gongzi's rant short immediately, "Wei Ying is free to seek me out whenever he wishes. No one may stop him."

And that seems to be that. Wei-xiong laughs and Wangji-xiong guides him away gently like he's someone delicate and not the strongest cultivator of their generation.

But, Huaisang muses, even strong people deserve gentleness.

---

"Da-shixiong! Show us that one again," A Jiang disciple demands and Wangji looks up from his work. He has clear sight of the training ground from where he's sitting. Wei Ying is standing in the middle, surrounded by a few Jiang and Lan disciples.

They're all looking at him in adoration.

Wangji feels a flood of amusement and sets his work aside, content to take a small break. It is always a treat to see his husband in his element; teaching people and nurturing young minds. They may be back in their teenage bodies, but their soul is much older.

Wei Ying, with his natural ability to charm juniors and his hard-earned wisdom, is the perfect teacher.

"It is amusing to see you so smitten," Wangji looks up to see his brother smiling at him, "Wei-gongzi must be very special, yes?"

His brother probably aims to fluster him, he is so fond of teasing Wangji. But Wangji had been Wei Ying's husband for more than a decade before an accident sent them back in time. He is no longer flustered or overwhelmed by his feelings. "Very special," He agrees, unable to help glancing back at his beloved, "Very lovely."

Xichen chuckles, "He is indeed lovely." His expression turns sly, "Do I need to speak with Uncle? Betrothal negotiations may be complicated in this case."

Wangji remains unphased, "You may," He says calmly, much to his brother's surprise, "Wei Ying will marry into the Lans. Give no concession to the Jiangs. He is just their Head Disciple, not the part of the family."

"Wangji," His brother breathes, "You're that invested?"

"Un. Will marry Wei Ying. Give him a better life. A life of dignity, freedom, and respect. Free of unnecessary debt that no one should foist on a child."

That is enough for Xichen to understand. His gaze turns solemn and he looks at Wei Ying carefully, "If that is what you wish, brother, you will have it."

---

Wangji feels his heart still when he steps into the library pavilion. He gazes at the scene before him, feeling the stiff formality of his expression melt away.

Wei Ying is beautiful, sitting there and reading peacefully. The evening sunlight envelopes him, giving him an ethereal glow. He traces his husband's features, feeling something akin to desperate love. It has been so since he saw this face and this body. Mo Xuanyu didn't lack beauty and Wei Ying's radiant personality had only added to it.

But this is Wei Ying's true body.

Helplessly drawn, he steps forward. "Xingan."

Wei Ying looks up, startled to hear such an endearment aloud. Immediately, his face is aglow with a pretty blush even as he laughs teasingly, "Lan Zhan! Don't be so bold!"

He walks towards Wei Ying and settles down by him, closer than truly appropriate but this is his husband. "Research?"

Wei Ying smiles, drawing Wangji's attention to his lips. There's no one in the library so Wangji permits himself the touch, reaching forward to gently caress them, "Such beauty." He whispers.

Wei Ying blushes again, "Er-gege," He protests, "Have mercy on my heart."

His fingers slide under Wei Ying's jaw, drawing him in gently. His husband is sweet and compliant as Wangji kisses him, an innocent brush of lips and nothing more. "My Wei Ying." His voice is low, heated in ways Wei Ying recognizes. He watches as those enchanting silver eyes brighten with passion.

His Wei Ying buries his warm face in his neck with a moan of protest, "Mercy, husband. You're so cruel to tease me like this when you can't take me to bed."

It is indeed a challenge to not have their 'everyday' but Wangji can be patient. Xiongzhang is already working on it.

For now, he is content.

They sit like that for a long time, Wei Ying leaning against him, trusting and calm. No one disturbs them and Xichen only stops by once, smiling knowingly in their direction and pointedly ignoring Wangji's restraining hand around Wei Ying's waist, stopping him from pulling away.

They spend the rest of the evening exchanging soft murmurs and softer kisses.

Nothing will stand in their way this time.

[hishoukoku]

Nie Huaisang's Master Plan

I've seen a few misunderstandings regarding Nie Huaisang's role in uncovering the murder of his brother, Nie Mingjue.

I wanted to go through a brief summary his entire master plan, that he carefully thought out, chronologically, since he deserves a LOT more credit than he's given.

~~The events follow the novel story-line solely!~~

Under the cut of course, because it's quite long~!

We know and love how Nie Huaisang is first presented in his comical, innocent even scaredy facade. He is not known to put that much effort into cultivation and his studies results (especially at Cloud Recesses) are exceedingly poor.

He’s also always gladly participating in Wei Wuxian's shenanigans, indulging in drinking nights and pranks + that small fact abt him owning an entire library of pornography.

Worth mentioning, that Nie Huaisang has always shown interest in demonic cultivation when Wei Wuxian first mentioned it. Especially since he wasn't adept at cultivating himself, which proves he was already ready to use all the means/short-cuts necessary to achieve his goals.

(This is presented solely from his POV but a bit of background of each situation is needed, yet I will try not to go into too many details and keep it NHS centric as parts of his plan are unfolded, which is why other main story elements are naturally skipped)!

His plans begins after his brother Nie Mingjue's death through qi deviation.

Nie Huaisang naturally becomes the new Qinghe Nie sect leader. He is still unwilling to cultivate the saber, lest the same fate befalls him, as previous Nie sect leaders have also lost their lives through qi deviation.

When Nie Huaisang notices that his brother's corpse has gone missing, he begins his search. He is only able to track down his left arm that he can neither suppress nor control.

Thus, his first goal is to find the remaining pieces.

His plan unravels chronologically as follows. step by step:

step 1. MO XUANYU

Nie Huaisang seeks out the traumatized Mo Xuanyu and goads him to perform the sacrificial summon with the incentive of revenge against his abusive family to summon Wei Wuxian back from the dead.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

step 2. MO VILLAGE

Nie Huaisang lets Nie Mingjue's left arm loose in Mo village when the Lan juniors (Lan Sizhui and Lan Jingyi) arrive to help solve the issue of increased number of fierce corpses recently. Nie Mingjue's left arm ends up claiming the lives of all of Mo Xuanyu's aggressors; Mo Ziyuan, Madam Mo, her husband and A-tong, hence freeing Wei Wuxian from the debt of the sacrificial summon by fulfilling Mo Xuanyu's wish for revenge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

step 3. THE BODY PARTS SEARCH.

Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji’s search for the other body parts begins:

The left arm is taken to the Gusu Lan sect and it directs them north-west, to Qinghe. Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji encounter Nie Huaisang who tells them about the "Man-eating castle" which is revealed to be the Nie Sect’s Ancestral Hall.

Backstory: The sabers cultivated by the Qinghe Nie Clan became strong enough to have a desire to kill evil spirits on their own even of their owners' died. As this created even more bloodshed, the sixth head of the Nie Clan came up with a plan to appease them. He built a tomb for the sabres with a number of corpses that were going to turn into fierce corpses. This way, the sabres could continue to fight with evil spirits even after their owners' deaths.

-> Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji discover the legs of the corpse in the wall of this Nie Sect’s Ancestral Hall

->The left arm then points to Yueyang next, where they witness the torso of the corpse being dug up by an unknown Gravedigger (who turns out to be Su She)

->Lan Wangji finds the corpse's right arm in Yi City after splitting up with Wei Wuxian.

-> The corpse reassembles itself in a headless body in a garden in Tanzhou. After fighting the corpse and playing 'Rest' to appease it, Lan Xichen recognizes its movements as that of his sworn brother. Nie Mingjue.

4. GETTING THE JUNIORS TO YI CITY

Nie Huaisang goes to great lengths to lure the junior disciples into Yi City.

It is presumed that technically he would go that far as to put the blame on Jin Guangyao quicker, if the juniors were to die at the hands of Xue Yang, which shows how strong his resolve is.

Nie Huaisang first targets Jin Ling, in an inn located in Qinghe, by nailing a dead black cat to the door of his room and a pool of blood outside as he wakes up. This happens night after night, despite him going from inn to inn, which eventually prompts him to investigate.

At the same time, Lan Sizhui, Lan Jingyi, Ouyang Zizhen and a few other juniors had been night-hunting in Langya. They first find the head of a cat in their soup, and then the corpse of a cat in their beds. This prompts them as well to investigate, ultimately meeting up with Jin Ling.

Ultimately as they met, Nie Huaisang disguises himself as a hunter from a nearby village to point them accurately, directly towards Yi City, which was his goal for this part of the plan.

5. SISI & BICAO

Nie Huaisang frees Sisi and asks Bicao to inform Qin Su about her true relationship with her husband Jin Guangyao. Qin Su receives the letter the night before the Discussion Conference, which makes her take her own life.

6. MENG SHI’S GRAVE

(Jin Guangyao buries Nie Mingjue's head in an iron box with Meng Shi's body in Guanyin Temple.)

Thus, it's Nie Huaisang who retrieves the head and removes Meng Shi's body, placing a poisonous trap in its place.

7. THE LETTER -> second Burial Mounds siege

Nie Huiasang sends Jin Guangyao a letter warning him that he will expose all his secrets in seven days.

!This triggers the Second Siege of the Burial Mounds. Jin Guangyao uses the Stygian Tiger seal to control the corpses there and Su She seals the cultivators' spiritual power. After Wei Wuxian’s thorough analysis in front of the hundreds of cultivators present, Su She reveals himself as Jin Guangyao's accomplice.

8. LOTUS PIER

As the cultivators recover after the second siege and go to Yunmeng, at Lotus Pier, Bicao and Sisi (instructed previously by Nie Huaisang) arrive to tell their stories:

> Sisi tells how Jin Guangyao murdered his father Jin Guangshan

> and Bicao tells how Jin Guangyao's wife Qin Su was his own sister.

Hearing this, the clans begin to plot his downfall furthermore.

9. GUANYIN TEMPLE

Despite popular belief Nie Huaisang isn't captured against his will or helpless at Guanyin Temple. Everything he planned for Guanyin temple was extremely deliberate and well thought out as it's the final piece of the puzzle.

His plans were as follows:

He released Nie Mingjue's fierce corpse onto Yunping to hunt down Jin Guangyao

He was willingly "captured" by Su She to play on Jin Guangyao’s pity through seeing him defenseless and scared

He deliberately allowed Su She to cut his leg because Nie Mingjue’s fierce corpse can still sense that his brother is hurt

He also uses his leg wound at the very end, by overreacting to the pain, distracting Lan Xichen from a very wounded Jin Guangyao, so that he makes him think he attacked him from behind. This results in Lan Xinchen stabbing his dear sworn brother, ultimately leading to Jin Guangyao’s death.

Wei Wuxian pieces it all together at the end, deducting the lengths Nie Huaisang went to and the magnitude of his plan.

[enbyleighlines]

In honor of pride month aka Hanguang June (god I love that, who came up with that clever pun?) I want to talk more about Lan Wangji’s internalized homophobia, and the outside factors that created it.

I think it’s not as apparent in the novel as, say, the homophobia that Wei Wuxian deals with while he’s within Mo Xuanyu’s body, but it’s still no doubt a big part of Lan Wangji’s character and story. We know that they live in a homophobic world. We know because of how Mo Xuanyu is treated, how Jin Ling calls homosexuality an “incurable disease”, how gay public displays of affection are criminalized, and so on and so forth.

We don’t know exactly how homophobic the Gusu Lan Sect is, but we do know that they are traditional and misogynistic, and while that does not prove that they are homophobic, it certainly does suggest it. There are also the rules forbidding promiscuity and debauchery, while may or may not include homosexuality.

We DO know that Lan Xichen, at the very least, is highly supportive of his brother. He is so supportive, in fact, that he apparently gossips with Jin Guangyao about Lan Wangji’s romantic life, as revealed in the Guanyin Temple confrontation. But that does not tell us whether Lan Xichen is an example of his Sect’s views, or an outlier. At one point, Lan Jingyi does say, “Hanguang-jun isn’t a cutsleeve!” which seems to suggest that Lan Wangji’s homosexuality is kept a secret, and that Jingyi, at least, has a certain view of gay men which is incompatible with Lan Wangji.

Things are further complicated by the fact that while Lan Qiren heavily disapproves of Lan Wangji’s relationship with Wei Wuxian, it’s unclear whether homophobia plays any part in it, or if Lan Qiren just hates Wei Wuxian himself.

All of that aside, I think it’s important to note that large elements of Lan Wangji’s character are 1. his inability to ask for what he wants, and 2. the suppression of his own feelings. He is already made to feel like his romantic feelings for Wei Wuxian are wrong on account of Wei Wuxian basically being the physical embodiment of everything the Gusu Lan Sect stands against, as well as the fear of becoming his father, but I think that there is also a large amount of internalized homophobia at play.

When they’re still teenagers, a lot of Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian’s interactions include Wei Wuxian teasing Lan Wangji in a manner which assumes that Lan Wangji is heterosexual. Wei Wuxian invites Lan Wangji to Lotus Pier by saying how beautiful the women of Lotus Pier are. He talks about how Lan Wangji will put women off with his cold demeanor. And then there is everything that happens with Mian Mian. These are the moments which really trigger Lan Wangji’s temper. And there is that moment where Lan Wangji accepts an even harsher punishment than Wei Wuxian, for something that isn’t even Lan Wangji’s fault, as if he’s carrying a great deal of shame within himself.

There is also the fact that Lan Wangji is so isolated as a teenager. He has no friends, and he keeps to himself. Lan Wangji is clearly different from his peers. At first, this is framed as a positive thing. He is better than his peers, more dedicated to the Gusu Lan Sect’s teachings, more mature, more disciplined, etc. But it also makes him quite the lonely figure.

That’s what makes it so heartening to see him after the 13 year gap. He is not super social, but he has the admiration and the respect of the juniors. He invites them into his rabbit field. He invites the round-faced girl in the early chapters to join the Gusu Lan Sect. He is known far and wide for being wherever he is needed, no matter how insignificant the case. Lan Wangji has developed a profound confidence in himself, which allows him to tell the juniors to take Wei Wuxian as Mo Xuanyu right to his personal quarters, despite knowing that Mo Xuanyu was known as a sex-craved cutsleeve. Lan Wangji no longer flinches at Wei Wuxian’s playful flirting. He is a man who has accepted himself, wholly and fully.

And then there’s the rabbit symbolism. In the beginning, Lan Wangji rejects the rabbits that Wei Wuxian brings him. As many people already know, rabbits are commonly associated with gay men in China, due to the fact that there is a Rabbit God that is also known for being the guardian of homosexual love. But after the 13 year gap, Lan Wangji has an entire army of rabbits. He keeps them despite the rule forbidding pets. One could interpret this as a metaphor of him accepting his own homosexuality, despite the social pressure from his Sect.

I think that’s part of the reason why Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian felt the need to elope. (Aside from, of course, not wanting to wait a second longer.) We know from the confession during the Guanyin Temple scene that they have no problem being publicly affectionate. They embrace and kiss and exchange passionate words of love in front of their friends and family. Hell, Wei Wuxian spends a large majority of the time sitting in Lan Wangji’s lap. They would have no problem with a public wedding... but I doubt that option would have been available for them. So they do their vows in private, and return to Gusu as husbands. It’s Lan Wangji’s way of skirting around another rule. The two of them can be as promiscuous as they please. They’re married, after all.

That’s also why it’s such a big deal when the Gusu Lan Sect allows Wei Wuxian to join the banquet in the extra chapters. This is the Gusu Lan Sect accepting their marriage as legitimate. It is an unexpected but happy surprise for them.

Lan Wangji goes through so much in the story, but in the end, he choses to be unapologetic about his emotions, and it not only transforms him, but the world around him. Lan Jingyi, who at the beginning refused to believe that Lan Wangji could be gay, starts lowkey shipping WangXian by the Yi City Arc. Jin Ling, who called homosexuality an incurable disease, eventually gives WangXian some awkwardly worded but sincere blessings. The strict and traditionalist Gusu Lan Sect comes to accept Wei Wuxian as Lan Wangji’s spouse.

I just... I just love Lan Wangji so much.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

My mission to rewatch the entirety of CQL over the long weekend has commenced! For blocking purposes, the tag is gonna be the same as what it was the first time through: “masala necromancy wizard hour.”

Episode 3:

-Really more of a carry-over from the second episode, but I like how the show isn’t just unclear about how much time passes between Cloud Recesses Summer Camp and WWX’s resurrection, but overtly obfuscating. The title card definitely read SIXTEEN YEARS AGO as the Yunmeng flashback trio pulled into Caiyi Town, but people have repeatedly said that WWX died sixteen years ago. Time, like geography, is an illusion.

-I could not STAND Jin Zixuan when I first watched the show last year. Now that I know what his arc is... I still don’t like him. I’m sorry, fandom, but he’s boring! He’s so boring! I’d honestly like him more if he were overtly bratty; a haughtier version of Jin Ling or, better yet, a male version of Pooja from K3G would be FANTASTIC, but as it is, I just cannot care about this cardboard cutout.

-I also don’t buy that Yanli is attracted to him? She looks uncomfortable to the point of nausea. If I, an aroace, find a character’s response to their love interest personally relatable, that’s... not a great sign. (Jiang Yanli 🤝 Sophia Cracroft 🤝 Rani Mukherjee’s character in KANK, my poor beloveds)

-That said, I appreciate how they lay the groundwork fro JZX turning it around by having him be halfway courteous to JYL and JYL only.

-I choose to believe that the Lan sect absoutely knows who everyone is when they show up, but the “you must have a ticket” thing was put there as a test of responsibility. Alternately, the guard guy hates his job and wants to fuck with people.

-I love bb Jiang Cheng stepping forward to try and do diplomatic interactions every time they encounter other members of the nobility. He’s doing his best!

-I also love!!! That JC notices when JYL is distressed! And tries to reassure her!

- “A-Cheng, you know that A-Xian always takes things seriously when they’re important.” ohhhhh nooooo he’s gonna internalize this and rationalize that WWX must not consider him important later, isn’t he D:

-I like the change to have WWX break a ward to enter Cloud Recesses rather than just climb over a fence. It establishes him as dangerous! No wonder Hall Monitor Lan Wangji is immediately on high alert. Breaking through the wards isn’t allowed? NO SHIT, HANGUANG-JUN. IT ALSO SHOULDN’T BE EASILY DONE!

-omg I just realized that WWX has literally no idea where the Jiang contingent is staying? What was he gonna do if LWJ didn’t intercept him, knock on every door until he found them?

-AERiagehhgkssr I FORGOT THAT WANGJI INTERRUPTS HIS BROTHER AND UNCLE FROM INVESTIGATING THEIR ZOMBIE AUTOPSY SO THEY CAN GIVE WWX DETENTION.

-Xichen is just so DELIGHTED by this diversion, though. It’s cute.

-"The puppets are totally alive and TOTALLY NOT ZOMBIES” creates so many weird plot problems re: Wen Ning and the Yi City crew, but I don’t hate it elsewhere. The description makes me think of the guys who’ve had their souls sucked out by Tuunbaq in The Terror. “All I can bring to mind is the example of a diary with all the entries removed. It’s still a book, yes. But blank pages now.“

-”Wangji, doesn’t he have some real skills? :)” “>:(! >:(! >:(!”

-OH MY GOD XUE YANG IS THIS EARLY?

-OH MY GOD HIM GETTING CHOKED OUT BY WEN RUOHAN IS HIS INTRODUCTION?

-Does Xue Yang as a Wen attache with a connection to the Yin Iron’s creation throw a wrench in a lot of plot elements? Yes. Do I like it anyway? Also yes. Firstly, it establishes that Wen Ruohan has a habit of giving jobs to maladjusted vengeance teens. Secondly, the Wen siblings and Xue Yang definitely interacted and that is HILARIOUS. Please consider Xue Yang following Wen Qing around pestering her to tell him weird gross medical facts. Please consider Xue Yang teaching an appreciative Wen Ning how to curse better. Bless.

[canary3d-obsessed]

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed, Episode 23, second part

(Masterpost) (Other Canary Stuff)

Warning: Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

Nature Abhors a (Power) Vacuum

Jin Guangshan, Nie Mingjue, and Lan Xichen have gathered to decide what to do about the remaining Wen people and also what to do about the Yin metal. They have not invited Jiang Cheng to this discussion, or blowhard Clan Leader Yao, despite those clans having been hit particularly hard by the Wens in the course of the war. 

The three of them have a conversation about what to do with the Wen captives, showing their different attitudes towards killing.

Jin Guangshan: Killing is awesome, particularly in project management. It's just so efficient. Nie Mingjue: Killing is necessary, and a little bit fun, too. Lan Xichen: Killing is necessary, sadly, but we can randomly spare some women or old people, as a token sign that we’re not monsters. Kind of like when you have a fancy dinner and include a tofu dish for the vegetarians. Nie Mingjue: Nobody likes tofu, Xichen.

Jin Guangshan says he's looking for the Yin Iron and that they can't let any Wens or "ambitious people" get a hold of it. By ambitious people he means Wei Wuxian, not himself and his murder kid. Lan Xichen realizes this right away but doesn't, you know, do anything to contradict him.  Jin Guangshan says he's asked "A-Yao" to look into it. Which is smart, because A-Yao is already in cahoots with Xue Yang, who actually has the piece of Yin Iron they're looking for.

Getting Jiggy With It

Then Jin Guangshan introduces Meng Yao, now renamed Jin Guangyao, in a weird twist on generation names. He has given him the name of a sibling or cousin of his own generation (starting with Guang), rather than a name of the next generation (starting with Zi). JGS says that JGY just recently learned about about being related to him, although we know perfectly well that's not true. 

And they both talk like he appreciates JGY's efficiency and helpfulness, but that's not why JGS has him at his side. He has taken him in because he is a steel-eyed murder bot, not in spite of it. 

(OP does not believe that Jin Guangyao could have been a good person if only his dad had let him hold Jin Ling that one time, as some have argued. Dude killed his own child because there was a chance he might be disabled in a way that could lead to gossip. Dude is a stone cold killer.)

(more after the cut)

In the language of CDrama costume (which is not, precisely, the language of actual historical clothing), Jin Guangyao has chosen to dress as a minister instead of as a chevalier. This is partly an artifact of his mother's ideas about a gentleman. It also suggests that he’s content with the sort of career that's available to a bastard of a noble house--not inheriting the noble title, but having enough favor to rise in power. 

It may also be a ruse to make him seem like he's not a strong cultivator and not a strong fighter, when in fact he is both, at least by the time he’s throwing death chords at Jiang Cheng, much later in the show. 

Mingjue makes all kinds of grumpy faces and snarky remarks to let everyone know that he fucking hates Jin Guangyao.  Xichen agrees to his “nice refugee camp with only a little death” plan, with no qualifications.

Now we get to see Jin Guangyao's manipulation of Lan Xichen. Lan Xichen says that Nie Mingjue wants a plan that’s more killy, because he believes in punishing evil. JGY deliberately misunderstands this, pretending that Lan Xichen said he, JGY, is evil, kind of forcing LXC to reassure him and take his side in an argument that isn’t actually happening. 

They have a little handholding while bowing, and then after Lan Xichen leaves, Jin Guangyao puts on his evil face and has all the prisoners killed behind the big closed door.  

This is done in such a violent fashion that the blood apparently flows up several stairs to the door, and over the tall raised threshold, before flowing downward toward the camera. Some evil is so extreme that even traditional Chinese doorway architecture can’t stop it.

Run To the Rock

Then we go outside to where Wei Wuxian is standing on a rocky outcropping, thinking it would be a good strategic spot to choose if he's ever in a battle where he wants to commit suicide right quick.

Lan Wangji comes to join him and admire the view, not knowing yet that this view, or one a whole lot like it, is going to be seared into his memory for most of his life.

Lan Wangji is becoming more and more committed to Wei Wuxian, more and more inexorably joined to him, but he still doesn't agree with him. So they each have this comfort in each others' presence at the same time as being massively in conflict.

Wei Wuxian asks him what he thinks of all the politicking and murdering. Who is good and who is evil? LWJ doesn't answer because WWX is leaking black smoke, so he grabs him and tells him to concentrate.  Lan Wangji is, incidentally, wearing Princess-Leia quantities of lip gloss.

Lan Wangji asks if Wei Wuxian would like to learn a new tune, "Absterge" according to Netflix. The fuck? [op looks it up in the dictionary]. "To cleanse, especially by wiping." Also known as aftercare. Netflix. Honey. This word is MIDDLE FRENCH. Will you knock it the fuck off?

So anyway, instead of answering his question about who is good and who is evil, LWJ asks if he wants to learn a song called "Cleansing." Wei Wuxian says “hey babe, are you fucking kidding me?” 

His actual words are "you doubt me too?" meaning "you think I also took the missing 4th chunk of Yin iron to make my ugly tiger amulet, rather than obviously having used that giant sword I pulled out of the turtle?"  

Lan Wangji mentally replays Wen Ruohan's questions in his head--the questions he barked at Wei Wuxian right before choking him unconscious--which Lan Wangji also feels entitled to know the answers to. Fuck you, Lan Wangji. He answers WWX with "when did you forge your amulet?" Which is his way of saying "yes, I doubt you."

Wei Wuxian kindly refrains from saying "while we were on a break, bitch" and instead tells him the exact truth--I found a yin iron sword in the turtle--but says it in his patented "make it sound like a lie" way. 

LWJ keeps grilling him, eventually coming out and saying dude, you knew the sword was Yin iron, why did you need to use it?

This is the crucial question--why WWX broke his first promise, to Lan Yi, which was to try to get rid of the Yin Iron. He won’t tell anyone the answer, which is that he needs to use it because he can't cultivate normally, because he lost his golden core. He made a lot of promises before that happened, and he probably expected to keep them. But without his core, everything changed; without his core, he’s a different person, so it’s maybe not fair to expect him to honor his previous promises. 

I’m reminded of my grandfather, who was the oldest son of an old southern US family, with lots of expectations as the firstborn. He went off to WWI as a soldier, expecting to die. He didn’t die, and so from that point on, he regarded his life as a gift. He felt could do whatever he wanted with it, and let go of expectations from before the war. He moved to Paris and took up with a glamorous divorcee 7 years older than him (my Grandma, eventually). 

The actual point of that story, other than OP having cool grandparents, is that when you think you’re going to die, and then you don’t die, your ideas about what you owe to people can change quite a bit. Wei Wuxian expected to die in the Burial Mounds; he expected to die at Nightless City; he expects it, over and over, and each time he doesn’t die, he gets further and further from being what everyone else wants him to be. And--a lot like soldiers returning from a war-- NOBODY in his life knows how to talk to him about it. 

Wei Wuxian tells Lan Wangji to back off, Lan Wangji says why aren't you letting me help you, and they are once again on the edge of the same fight they keep having. Lan Wangji does some impassioned arm holding while Wei Wuxian says he's not like Wen Ruohan. 

Romantic Duet #1

The argument is interrupted by screams and killing, so they go to check it out, and find the Jins hunting down some prisoners for sport. They arrive in time to save two people. Yay?

Jin ZIxun acts like a jerk, as always. The new element is that per Jin Guangshan, anyone concerned with Yin Iron shouldn't be alive.  He says that the Lan and Nie clans agreed, and challenges Wei Wuxian. Lan Wangji stops him from responding, grabbing his wrist.

The Jins leave and Wei Wuxian refers back to their earlier conversation, saying there will be more resentful spirits now and that "Rest" is the music to play, not "Cleansing."

He gives Lan Wangji a long look and then pointedly removes Lan Wangji’s hand from his wrist, by holding his hand, which is some next-level mixed signaling. Lan Wangji totally deserves it at this point, though. He keeps pushing and pushing WWX about his cultivation method, but he refuses to discuss the underlying morality of it, or the morality of the killing going on right in front of them. 

WWX walks off, leaving LWJ to stew in his own juices surrounded by a bunch of fresh corpses. 

Lan Wangji fails his saving throw against the guilt trip, and sits his ass down to play Rest, just like Wei Ying told him to. So switchy!  Wei Wuxian, out of sight but not out of earshot, hears him and accompanies him on Chenqing.

This scene is slightly ridiculous and a whole lot sublime. Ridiculous because it's their first time playing music together, so it's a super slow, romantic, extended scene, but they're surrounded by corpses. And not the helpful, friendly, third-wheel-on-a-date type of corpses.

It's sublime because the occasion of their first beautiful, literally magical duet is an argument. And they are joining together to play beautiful romantic music - as a service for the dead. And they are doing it while they are on literally opposite sides of a literal killing field. And Lan Wangji is sitting literally in the middle of a wide open road; the sort of road that they will both reject, metaphorically, later in the show. There is so much about their conflict and their journey that is encapsulated in this one musical moment.

Lan Wangji, by playing the song Wei Wuxian said was needed, is telling WWX that he took his words to heart, that he is listening, even though they're at odds.

WWX, by stopping and playing with him, is acknowledging this. And by settling the dead souls together, they are both reinforcing their dedication to doing what's right even as they both struggle with knowing what that is.

When Other Friendships Have Been Forgot, Ours Will Still Be Hot

Now we have the sworn brothers thing. I understand, plot wise, why this has to happen, but why would Nie Mingjue ever agree to this? Lan Xichen's puppy eyes are just that persuasive?

If they ever crack your spine, drop a line If they ever cut your throat, write a note If you’re ever in a mill and get sawed in half, I won’t laugh (HA HA HA HA)

Tedious Party Time

Now there's a cultivation party, which is about as excruciating to watch as it would be to attend.

Everyone is lining up to praise Jin Guangshan. To be fair, he did provide shelter for most of the smaller clans while the war was going on. So being grateful is appropriate, but Clan Leader Yao practically breaks his own neck kissing Jin ass. Yao says JGY’s contribution was the greatest of the war, adding, "fuck Wei Wuxian; everything is his fault."

The Jiangs show up wearing mourning belts that show off their itty bitty waists, and Jin Guangshan makes shifty eyes like a cartoon landlord when he sees them arrive.

JGS praises Jiang Cheng, and asks when his fancy clan-leader ceremony is going to happen. Jiang Cheng says he's still in mourning so it's not appropriate. JGS is like “Oh...yeah," as if he totally forgot about all the Yunmeng slaughter, and talks up his friendship with Jiang Fengmian. He acts comforting while WWX manages not to barf.

Then the Lan clan shows up and there is nice encouraging chit chat between LXC and JC...

...and just, SO MUCH mournful staring between Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian.

Then the Nies arrive.  Jin Guangshan tells Nie Mingjue he's late, and that everyone's waiting for him. That might be true in the script but it’s clearly bullshit on the screen, where the Lans and the Jiangs are still milling around looking for the coat room.

Nie Mingjue--who, let's remember, JUST swore to be brothers with Jin Guangyao--looks at him like he's something that fell off a garbage truck.  Lan Xichen jumps in to maximize the discomfort by pointing out that Jin Guangyao should address Nie Mingjue as Big Daddy Da-ge from now on.

Then the Jins offer Nie Mingjue the giant fire throne because...he's the leader of the Sunshot campaign, I guess? Of course it's all a manipulation tactic, designed to make him say he won't sit there, so that JGS can elevate himself to head cultivator, or something? And sit in front of the throne but not on it? Cultivator succession seems kinda arbitrary. 

I swear to god, it wasn't until I was clipping this episode that I realized Wen Ruohan had two thrones and they're in different rooms from each other.

Finally everyone goes to sit down, but because there hasn't been enough fucking awkwardness, JGY stops WWX to ask him what's on his mind. WWX asks him why he's not carrying his sword, which made me laugh and laugh. Wei Wuxian must have been just waiting for a chance to ask someone else that question for a change. 

Jin Guangyao says he threw it away, because it was just a random sword, but he really means he had it made into a sneaky murder belt, that he will be using again in 13 to 16 years. They both fake-laugh and trade Mean Girls insults pretend to like each other. 

Everyone wanders around toasting each other. Lan Wangji goes to find Wei Wuxian, after first making sure that his hair looks good.  

Wei Wuxian is lying around on the steps, sprawling and drinking wine, and not, incidentally, looking for Lan Wangji. He continues to not seek him out and Lan Wangji continues to chase after him.

Wei Wuxian says "how about playing Cleansing?" but Lan Wangji says he's learning a new score. It looks like it's going to be another argument, but then Wei Wuxian smiles and kind of praises Lan Wangji for being stubborn. 

Awkward Marriage Proposal

Just then everyone inside starts cheering for Jin Guangshan to give a speech. Jin Guangshan is making a move to marry Jiang Yanli to his son, which is a big time power grab, given that the Jiang Clan is 1. vulnerable and depleted 2. has control of the Yin tiger amulet.

We get a very rare glimpse into Jiang Cheng’s inner mind, where he thinks that saying yes isn’t a great idea, but isn’t sure what to do. This marriage would make his sister happy, but could destroy the Jiang Clan's independence.

Fortunately, Wei Wuxian joins the party just in time to fuck up Jin Guanshan’s plans. Will this teach Jin Guangshan not to invite Wei Wuxian to parties? It will not.  

Soundtrack: Friendship, by Cole Porter (from “Anything Goes”)

Bonus:

[pumpkinpaix]

Hello! Feel free not to answer this question if it is in any way too much, but I've been wondering about something concerning the "western" mdzs fandom. Lately, i have seen multiple pieces of fanart that use what is clearly Christian symbolism and sometimes downright iconography in depicting the characters. I'm a european fan, but it still makes me vaguely uneasy. I know that these things are rarely easy to judge. I'm definitely not qualified to do so and was wondering if you have an opinion

Hi there! thank you for your patience and for the interesting question! I’ve been thinking about this since i received this ask because it?? idk, it’s difficult to answer, but it also touches on a a few things that I find really interesting.

the short answer: it’s complicated, and I also don’t know what I feel!

the longer answer:

i think that this question is particularly difficult to answer because of how deeply christianity is tied to the western art and literary canon. so much of what is considered great european art is christian art! If you just take a quick glance at wiki’s page on european art, you can see how inextricable christianity is, and how integral christian iconography has been in the history of european art. If you study western art history, you must study christian imagery and christian canon because it’s just impossible to engage with a lot of the work in a meaningful way without it. that’s just the reality of it.

Christianity, of course, also has a strong presence in european colonial and imperialist history and has been used as a tool of oppression against many peoples and nations, including China. I would be lying if I said I had a good relationship with Christianity--I have always faced it with a deep suspicion because I think it did some very, very real damage, not just to chinese people, but to many cultures and peoples around the world, and that’s not a trauma that can be easily brushed aside or reconciled with.

here is what is also true: my maternal grandmother was devoutly christian. my aunt is devoutly christian. my uncle’s family is devoutly christian. my favorite cousin is devoutly christian. when I attended my cousin’s wedding, he had both a traditional chinese ceremony (tea-serving, bride-fetching, ABSURDLY long reception), and also a christian ceremony in a church. christianity is a really important part of his life, just as it’s important to my uncle’s family, and as it was important to my grandmother. I don’t think it’s my right or place to label them as simply victims of a colonialist past--they’re real people with real agency and choice and beliefs. I think it would be disrespectful to act otherwise.

that doesn’t negate the harm that christianity has done--but it does complicate things. is it inherently a bad thing that they’re christian, due to the political history of the religion and their heritage? that’s... not a question I’m really interested in debating. the fact remains that they are christian, that they are chinese, and that they chose their religion.

so! now here we are with mdzs, a chinese piece of media that is clearly Not christian, but is quickly gaining popularity in euroamerican spaces. people are making fanart! people are making A LOT of fanart! and art is, by nature, intertextual. a lot of the most interesting art (imo) makes deliberate use of that! for example (cyan art nerdery time let’s go), Nikolai Ge’s What is Truth?

I love this painting! it’s notable for its unusual depiction of christ: shabby, unkempt, slouched, in shadow. if you look for other paintings of this scene, christ is usually dignified, elegant, beautiful, melancholy -- there’s something very humanizing and humbling about this depiction, specifically because of the way it contrasts the standard. it’s powerful because we as the audience are expected to be familiar with the iconography of this scene, the story behind it, and its place in the christian canon.

you can make similar comments about Gentileschi’s Judith vs Caravaggio’s, or Manet’s Olympia vs Ingres’ Grande Odalisque -- all of these paintings exist in relation to one another and also to the larger canon (i’m simplifying: you can’t just compare one to another directly in isolation etc etc.) Gauguin’s Jacob Wrestling the Angel is also especially interesting because of how its portrayal of its content contrasts to its predecessors!

or! because i’m really In It now, one of my favorite paintings in the world, Joan of Arc by Bastien-Lepage:

I just!!! gosh, idk, what’s most interesting to me in this painting is the way it seems to hover between movements: the hyperrealistic, neoclassical-esque take on the figure, but the impressionistic brushstrokes of the background AAA gosh i love it so much. it’s really beautiful if you ever get a chance to see it in person at the Met. i’m putting this here both because i personally just really like it and also as an example of how intertextuality isn’t just about content, but also about visual elements.

anyways, sorry most of this is 19thc, that was what i studied the most lol.

(a final note: if you want to read about a really interesting painting that sits in the midst of just a Lot of different works, check out the wiki page on Géricault’s Raft of the Medusa, specifically under “Interpretation and Legacy”)

this is all a really long-winded way of getting to this point: if you want to make allusory fanart of mdzs with regards to western art canon, you kind of have to go out of your way to avoid christian imagery/iconography, especially when that’s the lens through which a lot of really intensely emotional art was created. many of my favorite paintings are christian: Vrubel’s Demon, Seated, Perov’s Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane, Ge’s Conscience, Judas, Bastien-Lepage’s Joan of Arc, as shown above. that’s not to say there ISN’T plenty of non-christian art -- but christian art is very prominent and impossible to ignore.

so here are a few pieces of fanwork that I’ve seen that are very clearly making allusions to christian imagery:

1. this beautiful pietà nielan by tinynarwhals on twitter

2. a lovely jiang yanli as our lady of tears by @satuwilhelmiina

3. my second gif in this set here, which I will also show below:

i’m only going to talk about mine in depth because well, i know exactly what i was thinking when I put this gif together while I can’t speak for anyone else.

first: the two lines of the song that I wanted to use for lan xichen were “baby, I’m a fighter//in the robes of a saint” because i felt that they fit him very well. of course, just the word “saint” evokes catholicism, even if it’s become so entwined in the english language that it’s taken on a secular meaning as well.

second: when I saw this scene, my immediate thought was just “PIETÀ!!” because LOOK at that composition! lan xichen’s lap! nie mingjue lying perpendicular to it! the light blue/white/silver of lan xichen in contrast to the darker robes of both nie mingjue and meng yao! not just that, but the very cool triangular structure of the image is intensely striking, and Yes, i Do love that it simultaneously ALSO evokes deposition of christ vibes. (baxia as the cross.... god..... is that not the Tightest Shit) does this make meng yao joseph of arimathea? does it make him john the evangelist? both options are equally interesting, I think when viewed in relation to his roles in the story: as a spy in qishan and as nmj’s deputy. maybe he’s both.

anyways, did I do this intentionally? yes, though a lot of it is happy accident/discovered after the fact since I’m relying on CQL to have provided the image. i wanted to draw attention to all of that by superimposing that line over that image! (to be clear: I didn’t expect it to all come through because like. that’s ridiculous. the layers you’d have to go through to get from “pretty lxc gifset” --> “if we cast nie mingjue as a christ figure, what is the interesting commentary we could do on meng yao by casting him as either joseph of arimathea or john the evangelist” are like. ok ur gonna need to work a little harder than slapping a song lyric over an image to achieve an effect like that.)

the point of this is: yes, it’s intentionally christian, yes I did this, yes I am casting these very much non-christian characters into christian roles for this specific visual work -- is this okay?

I obviously thought it was because I made it. but would I feel the same about a work that was written doing something similar? probably not. I think that would make me quite uncomfortable in most situations. but there’s something about visual art that makes it slightly different that I have trouble articulating -- something about how the visual often seeks to illustrate parallels or ideas, whereas writing characters as a different religion can fundamentally change who those characters are, the world they inhabit, etc. in a more... invasive?? way. that’s still not quite right, but I genuinely am not sure how to explain what i mean! I hope the general idea comes across. ><

something else to think about is like, what are pieces I find acceptable and why?

what makes the pieces above that reference christian imagery different than this stunning nieyao piece by @cyandemise after klimt’s kiss? (warnings for like, dead bodies and vague body horror) like i ADORE this piece (PLEASE click for fullview it’s worth it for the quality). it’s incredibly beautiful and evocative and very obviously references a piece of european art. I have no problem with it. why? because it isn’t explicitly christian? it’s still deeply entrenched in western canon. klimt certainly made other pieces that were explicit christian references.

another piece I’d like to invite you all to consider is this incredible naruto fanart of sakura and ino beheading sasuke after caravaggio’s judith. (warnings for beheading, blood, etc. you know.) i also adore this piece! i think it’s very good both technically and conceptually. the reference that it makes has a real power when viewed in relation to the roles of the characters in their original story -- seeing the women that sasuke fucked over and treated so disrespectfully collaborating in his demise Says Something. this is also!! an explicitly christian reference made with non-christian japanese characters. is this okay? does it evoke the same discomfort as seeing mdzs characters being drawn with christian iconography? why or why not?

the point is, I don’t think there’s a neat answer, but I do think there are a lot of interesting issues surrounding cultural erasure/hegemony that are raised by this question. i don’t think there are easy resolutions to any of them either, but I think that it’s a good opportunity to reexamine our own discomfort and try and see where it comes from. all emotions are valid but not all are justified etc. so I try to ask, is it fair? do i apply my criticisms and standards equally? why or why not? does it do real harm, or do i just not like it? what makes one work okay and another not?

i’ve felt that there’s a real danger with the kind of like, deep moral scrutiny of recent years in quashing interesting work in the name of fear. this morality tends to be expressed in black and white, good and bad dichotomies that i really do think stymies meaningful conversation and progress. you’ll often see angry takes that boil down to things like, “POC good, queer people good, white people bad, christianity bad” etc. without a serious critical examination of the actual issues at hand. I feel that these are extraordinarily harmful simplifications that can lead to an increased insularity that isn’t necessarily good for anyone. there’s a fine line between asking people to stay in their lane and cultural gatekeeping sometimes, and I think that it’s something we should be mindful of when we’re engaging in conversations about cultural erasure, appropriation etc.

PERHAPS IT IS OBVIOUS that I have no idea where that line falls LMAO since after all that rambling I have given you basically nothing. but! I hope that you found it interesting at least, and that it gives you a bit more material to think on while you figure out where you stand ahaha.

was this just an excuse to show off cool (fan)art i like? maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(ko-fi)

[colorisbyshe]

I have literally no way of verifying this info so take it with a grain of salt but I heard a while ago mxtx actually was in college when writing mdzs so the confusing style makes a lot of sense since she's inexperienced, and tgcf was much tighter and made more sense. as someone who read the fan translation of mdzs (and never will again, lmao cql is my only canon), it's interesting to hear about your thoughts about the writing and novel! imo there are genuinely spectacular book moments/dialogue/scenes, but most of them made it to cql, and the few good romance scenes (if he catches me I'll-, the yunmeng date extra) rly aren't worth it. I'm personally glad I read the entire book (sans incense burners) because it gives me a fuller perspective and allows comparison between adaptations, but it's not something I would necessarily recommend. the only scene that I think the novel did great that cql didn't have was the wen blood pool scene, but iirc that was in the donghua too. on the other hand the novel had a lot of really cool worldbuilding elements that were explained much better than in cql and I think jin ling was a stronger character so it also depends on what you like and want to see. anyway it's great to hear your thoughts, thanks for posting!

same anon - also love your description of the problems in the framing device in mdzs. you're right! it's inconsistent and a mess! also super insightful to pinpoint the fact that wwx is being used to introduce characters without spoiling them instead of reacting organically to the situation. and his weird interactions with lwj…they were so miserable /sob

Yeah, I do think the novel does a LOT better job explaining word building stuff than CQL did, since it can just... write things out instead of having it just sort of implied or directly stated via dialogue, which can be clunky. I honestly think a looot of hwat I know about the ~lore was actually picked up through checking the wiki or like having concepts spelled out in fanfic by authors who were drawing from both MDZS/CQL information, which... is a problem. Like it's almost all technical information (like about how golden cores work and what specific terms signify) but also some of it is just concepts being better explained when they were skimmed over in the drama.

So the novels do have value in like... padding out the world and maybe providing some character moments (although I will say... I thought Jiang Cheng being homophobic was just like... an exaggerated meme but no he's like... straight up just textually homophobic LMAO... don't know if i needed that enhanced character depth) but they will never be my definitive understanding of the story, even if I do read past Vol 1. And I definitely hve no interest in spending money on or owning the novels, even in a pirated way.

I am still impressed with how enjoyable of a read it is and I think the text holds up better than I thought it would in terms of like... properly dropping bread crumbs for people who know how everything ends, like it lays things out well... outside of the very weird framing of Wei Wuxian himself against everyone from his former life.

Like I said his reactions to everyone... come off as very unnatural and untrue to his character and their relationships, even with how much distance came between them in his final months/years. For how well misdirection worked in CQL at least... it's really not working here when provided with characters more inner thoughts.

So I LIKE having them, at least in theory, and I like more peaks into the background (like Lan Xichen teasing Lan Wangji early on about liking Wei Wuxian's company lmaoooo), but idk if the early stuff is servicing what is to come as well as it should be.

Also... the bad BL tropes are already hitting hard. Like LWJ making WWX sleep on top of him and the moments emphasizing how tiny WWX is now.... girl, the fujoshi within you has leaked onto the page, go clean that up.

I think (from what I know at least, from the manhua and from comparisons) Imas sively going to appreciate MXTX being less present in the CQL adaption. Like I feel the author too much in the novel. I feel the machinations.

So as pleased as I am by the world building and overall narrative/character moments, which is VERY pleased, she really is her own worst enemy. Not even getting into her moral issues just from like a technical stand point, her writing is very frustrating to me.

Going from a superior adaption to the OG text is lot.

It's like... did any of y'all read the thirteen letters? Womb to tomb bitches?? It's like reading that then watching TFA. Like... even the likable things become frustrating because you're so aware of their limitations and how they aren't reaching their full potential.

[whetstonefires]

Okay so having finished The Untamed--

spoilers now but also, I haven't read the book yet so pls don't get into it with me about it if it's super different--

one thing that's really sticking with me is the parallels between Jin Guangyao and Jin Guangshan's deaths.

Specifically, the way Nie Huaisang's choice of final blow resembles what Jin Guangyao did with his father, and how deeply that underlines the way nhs chose to become his enemy in order to defeat him. In a way the plot-level scheming doesn't really achieve that comparison.

Because, see, the thing about Jin Guangshan's death, about Meng Yao bringing in those women to stage a weird noncon death orgy is--that was just theater. For an audience of basically the two of them, since he killed off most of the witnesses afterward.

Jin Guangyao bought and spent a bunch of women's lives to kill his father in a poetically fitting, humiliating way. A way that only worked because the man was already dying!

Meng Yao had good reasons to kill his father. Arguably his being quicker off the mark and more proactive about it would have made things better for everyone. But no. He waited all that time, until he could have just smothered the man with a pillow and gotten away with it, and then launched this elaborate punishment death for him.

For a man whose treatment of sex workers as disposable was one of the main crimes Meng Yao held against him.

The main irony is not at the old man's expense here dude, what are you doing.

All his other crimes were in service of something! Even if it was something fucked-up and/or lame and awful and clearly not worth it, he had a goal he was working toward and in some cases probably really was telling himself he had no choice--I don't think that's an excuse you'd proffer quite that incessantly if you hadn't been using it internally.

But killing Jin Guangshan like that--that was just for his own satisfaction. Using those women up so he could pointlessly enjoy it.

So then when Nie Huaisang chooses to kill Meng Yao by abusing Lan Xichen's trust--equally, he didn't have to do that.

Meng Yao was exposed and injured and outnumbered and alone. Even if they'd all walked away right then he was likely to die, from blood loss or infection or being caught by the cultivation world and strung up like Mussolini.

Of course, after all this trouble Nie Huaisang would want to be sure. That's why he inserted himself into the scene at all, I'm sure; he probably wanted to see it play out but he definitely wanted to make sure the revenge landed. Of course he wasn't going to risk handing his target over to justice and risking him talking his way out after all, or slipping away and moving to Japan. (Side note: I think it's very funny jgy suggested 'I'll move to Japan' as an acceptable alternative to 'I'll die.')

Nie Huaisang isn't a strong fighter, but Jin Guangyao isn't all that powerful either, as these things go, and he's down an arm and demoralized. Nie Huaisang could definitely have insisted on having him tied up, if he thought he needed the extra edge, created a distraction, and choked his enemy to death with his bare hands, if he'd wanted to. He could have sent an assassin into his cell if the man was sentenced to imprisonment.

He had a lot of options, is my point.

But he didn't do those things. Instead, he used Lan Xichen.

He used Lan Xichen exactly the same way Jin Guangyao had, abused his trust and love to manipulate him into being the instrument of killing his own sworn brother. If Lan Xichen wasn't broken already, Nie Huaisang ensured it, and he damn well knew what he was doing.

A friend of mine argues he did it because it would hurt Lan Xichen as well, as vengeance on him for being the instrument of Jin Guangyao's plot to kill Nie Mingjue. Idk if this is like, something that's outright stated in the text or just A Reasonable Interpretation, but it's not better that way--it's less careless, but it just even more emphasizes that he knew.

He knew who he was emulating.

And that's part of the point of interest to me because it's very clear that Huaisang does know who he's imitating, whose game he's choosing to play back at him. What he's choosing to become.

It's not so blatant in their both using Wei Wuxian because, firstly, he's the main character so we expect him to be at the center of things; secondly, everyone wants to use Wei Wuxian; thirdly, Nie Huaisang's schemes are comparatively beneficial to him.

Wei Wuxian himself has a marked tendency to reduce himself to his utility; it's easy to let it go, as a trespass against him, especially when it literally gives him another chance at life.

When you look at how they both reduced Lan Xichen to a piece in the game, though, leveraged his affection and his trust to make him into a murder weapon--then it stands out.

Obviously they're both schemers but that's just an archetype. Spy-versus-spy beat-them-at-their-own-game isn't inherently intimate like this, even when it's vengeance. Even when it's revenge on someone you used to trust.

And Nie Huaisang knows. I don't think Jin Guangyao ever did. I think he lies to himself a lot and in the end that's a significant element in his downfall, but also he just--doesn't perceive himself with any of the detachment he's able to turn on most of the world. I don't think he ever in his life noticed the ways he'd become his father.

But Huaisang sure as fuck knew what he'd decided to become.

Which is why that endscene tying up his plot thread focuses on his not wanting to be Chief Cultivator--he didn't do all this to get Jin Guangyao out of the way and replace him. He doesn't want to become the new metaplot villain, the way jgy replaced jgs who replaced wen ruohan.

So maybe things will be okay.

This relationship between Nie Huaisang and Jin Guangyao and how nhs' self-awareness of how he's committed to a form of villainy and chooses to restrain himself, which is what promises an end to the abuse cycle on the political stage, ties in really interestingly to some of the other stuff mxtx does with the concept of villainy but this post is already long enough.

[inessencedevided]

There's been a lot of cql/mdzs atla-au posts going around lately and I need to add my take.

Because I think a lot could be done with Wei Ying as the avatar.

Imagine the story goes similarly as in canon. He is the son of traveling benders. Maybe Cangse-Sanren is a firebender and Wei Changse a waterbender. They get killed on some mission and he gets taken in by his father's old friend and leader of the Yunmeng water tribe. (This reminds me a lot of kyoshi's backstory, too.) He raises him a long his own children, his daughter who takes to healing more than fighting, and his son who likes nothing more than fighting.

Wei Ying already showed signes of being a waterbender, so they train him, even though he is the son of a former servant. He is, of course, more talented than any other of their students, even Jiang Cheng. Madam Yu still hates him for it.

At some point, they let all the children of the sect take the Avatar test. He passes. Occurs, they don't tell him until he is 16, so he doesn't know. Madam Yu dies though and her hatred for him for upstanding her son only grows. But Wei Ying is happy and loves them, much like in canon and, much like in canon, he is also convinced that he is deeply indebted to him and always brings more trouble than he is worth.

When they tell him he is the avatar on his 16th birthday, he is shocked and scared of his responsibility, but doesn't show it. He laughs it off and tells everyone he is glad because that means he can see the world and doesn't have to annoy madam yu anymore. He only shows cracks to his cheerful facade when they tell him that he has to leave the very next day. That means he will miss Jiang Cheng's birthday. When he tells Jiang Cheng's this, he gets angry and tells Wei Ying that clearly he is very important now and why not run off to the other sects, see if they will put up with him. He refuses to say goodbye after that, so it's just jiang yanli and Jiang fengmian seeing him off.

He goes to king Nie first who is the most renowned earth bending master of their time. He is unyielding and harsh, but unbelievably fond of his younger brother, who mostly uses his bending to sculp intricate and detailed statues. Wei Ying likes him instantly.

Next is fire. He doesn't like the fire lord who greets him and treats him like he is royalty himself, but in a way that makes Wei Ying's skin crawl. He does like the shy boy in his group lessons and his older sister. Wei Ying is good at firebending, even though it should be his natural enemy. Maybe it's his mother's side showing itself though.

Then of course, to complete his training, he needs to learn air-bending. He gets to Gusu and immediately dislikes it there. They are monks and they live like it, too. There are rules regulating every waking moment and the sleeping ones too and he vows to break at least half of them. By now he us 20 and he'll be damned if he lets himself be bossed around like he's 12 again.

He is greeted by their unusually young leader and his uncle and brother. He expects the uncle to be his teacher, but no. Lan Xichen explains that the honor of training the Avatar will go to the youngest air bender to ever become a master, his brother, Lan Zhan.

Okay, Wei Ying thinks, he can live with that. At least a teacher close to his own age should be fun, right?

Wrong!

Lan Zhan is strict, reticent, unyielding and punishes him for every single infringement of the 3000+ rules. He scolds Wei Ying for not taking the enormous responsibility of being the avatar more seriously. He never smiles and never praises him with more than a "passable".

But he is a challenge. One he is good! The best opponent in a fight Wei Ying has had since he was 14. And there is something so fun at making him react in even the slightest way! Also, his ears blush when he is angry and it's cute!

The first time, Wei Ying uses something other than air bending in their training fights, Lan Zhan is furious (Undisciplined!). But tge second time he grots his teeth and fights, really fights Wei Ying. He holds his own again a 3/4s-trained avatar for more than 30 minutes until Wei Ying let's him get swallowed by a whole in the ground that he than seals with a thick layer of ice that will take him way to long to slice open with air bending.

After that, their relationship evolves. It's more of a mutual rivalry, rather than just Wei Ying needling his air bending teacher until he snaps. After a few months, once Wei Ying has progressed beyond the basics (he can fly now! He loves flying! How can the Lans be so serious all the time? They can fly!!!), Lan Zhan introduces him to musical air-bending. Through bending, they can use the sounds to heal and to hurt, amplify them at will or direct them to a specific direction. Lan Zhan demonstrates some techniques on his guqin and then plays a song, though he refuses to tell Wei Ying its meaning.

Wei Ying picks a dixi. He takes to music like a fish to water and soon he is declared a fully trained air bender. His last night in Gusu is when it happens. News reaches them that Yunmeng is under attack from the Wen sect, who have been annexing more minor territoires for years. By the time Wei Ying gets there Lan Zhan at his side, Lotus Peer is burned to the ground. They barely get Jiang Cheng and Jiamg Yanli out, helped by Wei Ying's old friend, Wen Ning. They make it Wen Qing, who takes one look at Lan Zhan and tells him to go because Gusu is next.

(The wens knew where the avatar was abd where he wasn't abd chose their attacks accordingly)

Lan Zhan rushes back (alone. Wei Ying has brother to get back from the brink of death) but he us too late, too. Cloud Recesses is burned, his father dead, his brother missing and he is taken prisoner.

The war happens almost like in canon. The other heirs are taken hostage and given lessons as to how to behave towards their occupiers. They escape through the stupidity of Wen Chao.

I don't think that there'd be a burial mounts though, nor an equivalent to the list golden core. you can take someone's bending but i want Wei Ying to remain the avatar because:

In his desperation to beat the seemingly almighty Wen and his grieve for the Jiangs who took him in, he devices a plan. A) he goes to Lan Zhan and asks him if musical cultivation might help him to learn how to control the avatar state. He says they can try. They do try and after a while, Wei Ying reaches that state. And B) he rensacks the world for scrolls on blood cultivation.

When they advance on nightless City, he is ready. No one kniws his plan. Even Lan Zhan only knows of his having learned to control the avatar state. He needs the element of surprise and he needs it when he stavds in front of Wen Ruohan.

So he waits. By the time he stands face to face with Wen Ruohan and his army, the floor us littered with corpses.

Wei Ying, in front of his brother, Lan Zhan, everyone goes into the avatar state and with the power of all his former incarnations, bebds the blood of every single corpse, as well as every single Wen soldier to turn on Wen Ruohan and then each other. It's a massacre.

When he comes to it again, there is silence. And then cheers. Everyone cheers for him, even though blood bending has veen outlawed for ages. He won them their war though.

Everyone cheers, everyone but Lan Zhan.

They fight after that, a lot.

(I helped you enter the avatar state. You could have died! - my problem, not yours! - You desecrated the dead! What about their spirits? - what about their spirits? I'm the avatar, i can deal with them! - the avatar state is the sacret link to your past lifes ... - My past lifes, yeah Lan Wangji! Let me decide what to do with them. - Wei Wuxian! - Lan Wangji.)

They part on bad terms more often than not.

So when knews reaches that the Jins, a notoriously rich noble family in some corner of the earth kingdom, has taken Wen citizens, civilians mostly, for slave labour, he goes alone. He is furious, more so when he realises that his friends are among them. He enters the avatar stare involuntarily and has the blood of all present Jin soldiers boil in their veins. Wen Ning is almost dead, but he uses his bending to circulate his blood in his body until he can get him to his sister. She is in Lanling after all, having married their heir.

Now because I love Jiang Yanli, in this au, she plays a bigger role. She saves Wen Ning and shows them out of Lanling.

They flee to a part of Qishan that was all but destroyed during the war and then used as a mass grave for the Wens wei ying himself killed, the ones whose spirits Lan Zhan had warned him about.

And the workd turns on it's Avatar.

The avatar is supposed to bring Peace, stand for balance and justice. Not choose a handful of people to protect at all costs.

But Wei Ying thinks, this is just! The world is full of greedy rich people trying to outdo each other for power, so isn't protecting those who suffer from it through no fault of their own justice?

Now, this could go two ways. Either, in a plot more similar to mdzs, the spirits Wei Ying disturbed abd that he is now living on top of, betray him when the rest of the world finally comes to ambush him (cue Lan Zhan trying g to protect him abd falling from grace himself. And the eternally yearning because he list his chance. the avatar is reborn ofc and Lan Zhan vows to protect them because Wei Ying is still a part of them, but they aren't Wei Ying. They are a completely different person and Lan Zhan never loves again.) DEPRESSING

So, let's go the atla route. Wei Ying goes through a spiritual journey, similar to Korra, gets the Wen remnants rehabilitated, makes the right people see sense and basically does the whole Avatar shitck of first finding peace within himself in order to bring peace to the world. *waves hand*

He confesses to Lan Zhan. They adopt A Yuan. Cue kiss in front of a glowing sunset and "The End" displayed to soaring music.

Admittedly, the second ending needs more flashing out, but it's late,so if anyone wants to have a go, feel free :D

[i-ship-therefore-i-am]

Lan Wangji and Morality

I’ve been thinking about Lan Wangji and how tempting and romantic it is to think of him by the end of CQL as having completely thrown off his rule-following and his reputation and the entire cultivation world as a whole in the name of just following his heart. We love the idea of a Lan Wangji with zero fucks left to give. Head empty of anything but Wei Wuxian. But it just...isn’t true? And is a lot more complicated than that? 

Lan Wangji certainly does change during the course of the events we see. He goes from a completely rigid rule-following life, of seeing no distinction between righteousness and the rules. An almost Legalistic application of rules and immutable consequences for breaking those rules, and no grey area or circumstances that can excuse it. We see that in the case of accepting punishment for himself when he had the choice to drink taken from him. The circumstances didn’t matter, only the law broken and the punishment required. It is very black and white. (Which is an interesting counter-point to Wei Wuxian at this point who doesn’t see the need to follow rules when one gets punished no matter what they do. Punishment is inevitable, so why not just do what you think is right anyway?)

In the Sunshot era, we see Lan Wangji first struggling with the more complicated applications of morality. We see how lost he is when he comes up against lines that seem to be blurring. Wei Wuxian, who he believes to be righteous and good, and yet who's actions are decidedly not. And the leaders of the Sunshot campaign knowing his actions are ‘wrong’ but deciding the circumstances of the greater evil of the Wen make it something that must be excused (for now). And none of that computes for Lan Wangji. There are rules and there are punishments for rules, but there is also this mess? And we have that great conversation with Lan Xichen who is basically saying, no one is just good or bad by some arbitrary measure, by one set of actions, but that it is their heart, the deepest of their intentions that must be judged. This is what allows us to see Wen Rouhan as evil and Wei Wuxian as good, even as they use the same tools and approaches. Because the intent of one is to harm and grasp power, and the intent of the other is to protect. To give Lan Wangji credit, I think he sees how arbitrary that measure is, a measure built on perspective and not absolutes. And so we see Lan Wangji unable to let go of Wei Wuxian’s actions and breaking of inherent rules. Because instead of relying on the purity of Wei Wuxian’s intentions or the positive outcomes of his ‘wrong’ actions, we can only see Lan Wangji wanting his internal righteousness to be free and seen again. That the only way for the truth he knows of Wei Wuxian to be preserved and honored is to bring him back to the righteous path. To somehow align actions with intention. Notice he doesn’t badger Wei Wuxian about what is wrong or where he was or why he picked up this path, he just offers a path back to righteousness through his own unwavering actions of offering music and a place to reflect--a way back. 

And under a lot of this, I keep having to remind myself as an outsider looking in on another culture, is the underlying Confucian elements of righteousness. I mention in the first part Legalism, which we might see reflected in Lan Wangji’s earliest characterizations--very black and white enacting of rules and punishments. But Confucianism--the pursuit of righteousness through learning and pursuit of personal virtue--is also very much a social structure. A social hierarchical structure. For while improving oneself through learning and reflection is greatly important, there is also the central honoring of elders as those of greater knowledge, experience, and virtue. And via that, reverence for the old masters and the established ways of doing things. (Orthodoxy as Lan Wangji might put it during the post-Sunshot era.) Within Confucianism, righteousness is not maintained through complaining or the younger correcting the elder. (Or even assuming the younger knows better.) One must practice righteousness through their own actions and not dictate the actions of others. They must model it themselves rather than criticize or complain. They must meet any conflict or wrong-doing by honoring and doing good themselves, even if that means honoring seniors you believe to be doing wrong. To break that would be to weaken your own righteousness. To be unfilial. You do not correct an elder, you merely act in a way that might encourage others to act in that way as well, or might allow others to see how the heavens smile on your own good actions and learn to do that themselves through their own actions. I think, upon reflection, this is really what Lan Wangji was doing during the Post-Sunshot campaign era. This is why he couldn’t just free the Wen prisoners himself, or criticize the Jin for wrong-doing the way Wei Wuxian is so free to do. (Actions by Wei Wuxian that in this society is just more evidence that his actions are unrighteous (unfilial), even if his intentions are righteous. Which kind of makes a liar of Xichen, because do any of the great sects really judge on intentions? Or only if one still maintains perfect filial actions?)

And so Wei Wuxian dies, and it isn’t that Lan Wangji never allowed himself to act on his love for Wei Wuxian. He did act on his love, but in ways that were tied to a narrow, filial path. Through a world view that demands intentions and actions to align in righteousness. He was patient. He did as he was told by his elders. He took punishment without complaint after visiting Wei Wuxian in the Burial Mounds, and I don’t think that was a ‘I do what I want, this punishment is stupid.’ I think it was a ‘yes, I broke this rule, and this punishment is what I deserve for that, for not finding another righteous path to take to bring Wei Wuxian back yet. I take this punishment as time to further reflect and develop my virtue so I can find the correct way forward to do this. so I can be better.’ That whole arc, Lan Wangji acted righteously and waited for that righteousness to be rewarded. But in the end, it can’t save Wei Wuxian. 

But neither do his unrighteous actions. Our boy snaps a bit at that last Nevernight battle. He kills people to protect Wei Wuxian. He goes to the Burial Mounds, finds Wen Yuan and rescues him. He fights his own people. And Wei Wuxian still dies.

So what does he think of his 33 lashes punishment in this context, I wonder? It is the proper response to the rules he broke. It is an experience meant to help him reflect and grow and travel the path of self-knowledge towards greater virtue. (no matter how brutal it might seem to viewers.) And I think this is what he takes it for. I don’t think he is pissed at the Lan class for doing it to him. I don’t think he hates Xichen or Qiren forever for letting that happen to him. I think he takes it as the response to his actions. (And maybe, in some ways, as a gift, this distraction from the sheer agony of his grief.) I don’t think I even see his “What’s good, what’s evil, what’s black, what’s right?” response to Lan Qiren is ‘fuck you’ as much as a plea to the heavens for an answer. I think he takes those three years to deeply reflect on everything that happened and on this very set of questions itself. All the contradictions, the intentions and actions and what is filial and how does one live justly in a world that does not feel just? And I think these questions and his following years of wandering and focusing on righteous actions that are also born of righteous intentions (wandering where the chaos is, helping those who need help) very much do build his virtue. It’s not a rupture, it’s an evolution. 

The Lan Wangji that Wei Wuxian meets upon his resurrection is not someone who has thrown over the rules, he is not someone who has given up the importance of being filial. But he is someone who more greatly understands the function of rules, the heart of them built deep upon righteous intentions. And instead of sneakily trying to make Wei Wuxian act right, he is truly virtuous and filial in letting Wei Wuxian be exactly as he is, defending him and protecting him and meeting him only with his own righteous actions rooted in his righteous intentions. Lan Wangji still never criticizes and rails against the Cultivation world. He simply defends and supports Wei Wuxian. And it is through this righteous action that the cultivation world finally becomes a slightly more just place. He still honors and follows the rules, let them guide him along the endless road of righteousness as not a hard, final destination, but a journey. But those rules are for himself, not for him to judge others or administer punishment. 

It’s clear to me that even in the last arc, it still really hurts Lan Wangji to not listen to Qiren when he is ordered to leave Wei Wuxian in the Burial Mounds second siege. It hurts him to have to disobey, to have this rupture from his family and senior, and yet this is the true righteous action that he is letting speak for itself. He doesn’t argue back against his uncle, he merely makes the painful choice and hopes it will lead by example. 

I guess what I blathered through here is a reflection of the fact that Lan Wangji does not become this whole different person or adopt a completely new set of morals by the end, but rather only settles more and more into the core of who he has always been, simply in a more virtuous and righteous way as a true gentleman is supposed to. And this is why he can’t just have thrown everything over and wandered out into the world with Wei Wuxian. Why he goes back to Cloud Recesses and takes up the mantle of Chief Cultivator. Why he seeks to ever improve and grow the Lan Clan towards greater righteousness. And even, I think, why he doesn’t expect actual pay off for his devotion and love of Wei Wuxian. He doesn’t do it to make Wei Wuxian love him or to get to be with him. That isn't the pay off he’s building for. (Even though I think he gets that too anyway!!)

In summary, I suppose, while the thought of Lan Wangji just completely breaking from all the rules and the Lan clan and throwing it all off to be with Wei Wuxian is really romantic and might be fun to read about in fanfic, it doesn’t really feel right to me. And I felt like blathering on about why. 

[spockandawe]

Hi.....if you don't mind me asking, what are your top 10 favorite books? And why? Sorry if you've answered this question before....

This is an interesting question, and a difficult one! Which is why I let it steep for a few days while I was in a bookbinding fugue, haha XD

I’m not sure I’ll be able to answer it, because my level of fondness is highly dependent on how recently I read a book/how many times I’ve reread it, with an optional nostalgia modifier if something made a huge impression in my youth. And when I’m picking favorites, as the number of potential [thing] expands, the more I end up dithering and fretting that I’m forgetting something HUGE as I choose. So rather than a selection of top ten, I’ll just run down through some of my favorites! I’ll split it as five cnovels (recent reads, current genre hyperfixation) and five more conventional english-language novel (realistically, probably more like series, unless a standalone book occurs to me), and I’m not going to rank the conventional novels.

SO. Regular novels first. There’s a heavy recently-read/frequently-reread element going on in here. 

The Imperial Radch trilogy, by Ann Leckie. Okay, I am a sucker for a nonhuman protagonist, which is going to pop up in at least two other entries. And I’m also a sucker for themes of what can be perceived about a person externally versus their internal world, and Breq delivers like WHOA. She has SO MUCH going on in her head, and even though we’re in there with her, she still hides lots of her emotions from us. And characters like Seivarden hit me in character development buttons that I’m a sucker for, and the whole idea of consciousness being split across multiple bodies is DELICIOUS to me. Also... love me a sentient spaceship. ‘The Ship Who X’ series by Anne McCaffrey isn’t going to make this list, but I also love it a lot. (also, a universe of ‘she’s made me realized how STARVED i was for that degree of representation in certain genres that i love a lot, but don’t often see myself in as often as i might like)

The Murderbot series, by Martha Wells. Another nonhuman, sometimes-human-passing protagonist! Another one processing MASSIVE trauma of a sort that I, the human reader, have to slow down a lot and try to comprehend from an extremely different life experience! I like that a lot, it really forces me to LINGER on the nature of what a character is feeling. And oh my god, Murderbot’s voice is one of my favorite pov voices of all time. And watching it work (or go hogwild on its own asdfdgd) is absolutely delightful. I love literally everything about this series, except what happened with Miki. Other than that? Flawless.

The Books Of The Raksura, by Martha Wells. Martha Wells is a DELIGHT, y’all. Also! Another heavily-traumatized, nonhuman protagonist! And this time, like... It’s a fantasy world with huge amounts of sentient species, and the protagonist grew up away from his people, who are basically a bunch of feral homesteaders (LOVE THAT), and is trying to figure out how to reintegrate into their societal structures as an adult. That desperate desire to belong and feeling of discomfort and not-fitting-in, and the connections he makes and the way he DOES find a way to fit... like if u crey every time. Also, as far as we’re shown, it’s a cheerfully bisexual, polyamorous society, and *grabby hands*

Discworld, by Terry Pratchett. God, what do I even say about this series. It was a PARADIGM SHIFT. It’s bitingly funny, and also just plain biting, and full of huge varieties of interesting stories, set in a fascinating world, with a series of protagonists who I love too much for words. Vimes! The witches! Moist!!! They’re all so WONDERFUL. I still haven’t read the last book in the series yet, because then it will be Over Forever, and I can’t deal. This one is heavily nostalgia-tinted, but also, I stand by it.

The Belgariad/Mallorean, by David Eddings. Okay. Also very nostalgia, and the choice I can justify the least. But these books CLICKED with me. I’m afraid to reread them, because I’ve been wallowing in queer fiction for so long I’m worried about what the compulsory heterosexuality will feel like, and I know both series are very... episodic, in a way that isn’t necessarily great literature. But I dunno! Feels good, man. It’s high fantasy with a magical system I like, segmented worldbuilding of a sort that isn’t necessarily WELL-MADE, but it’s like... comfortable and easy. And something about the style and the character voices just clicks with me. I have no idea how well these hold up in the present day, but I do love them, and I’ve been planning to reread at least The Redemption Of Althalus by the same author as a standalone before I commit to a 12-book rereading of this universe, but.... I like em XD

--

Cnovels! I think I can rank these, so let’s go for it.

Fifth favorite: The Disabled Tyrant’s Pet Palm Fish :B Look, it’s ridiculous. It’s a transmigration story where the lead enters this fictional universe in the body of a fish, where he is adopted by a prince who eventually falls in love with him, and YES IT IS TAGGED MPREG, BUT HOLD ON A MOMENT-- I don’t know! I came here to point and laugh, but I’m honestly having such a good time right now. It’s really cute! And sweet! The main character is delightful, and the love interest is that particular flavor of semi-socialized upper-class young man, where like, can he do court politics? yes. can he politely express his affections for the main character? uh....... less so. It’s a really fun read, and I felt very sincere emotions about this prince who is passionately, deeply in love with his pet fish!

Fourth favorite: Mmmmmm, Mo Dao Zu Shi, I think. I struggle here, because it is NOT an easy book to read or show to watch, but having consumed the story, I love it to PIECES. I know a big draw for me is the protagonist, specifically, and his relationships to the people around him. And the more I cared about him, the more I wound up caring about the people around him, who I’d kind of neglected before, if that makes sense? It’s a story that really rewards some good old pondering. I didn’t care that much about Lan Xichen, but then I started thinking about how Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji relate to Lan Xichen, and then oh no, I care SO MUCH about his emotions, and now I’m thinking more deeply about how Lan Xichen relates to Jin Guangyao and Nie Mingjue-- It does lose points in this ranking because it IS hard to get into, and I would struggle to keep everyone straight even more if I didn’t have the show visuals to lean on, but it is still story I enjoyed VERY much.

Third favorite: Erha, but I feel REALLY, REALLY BAD that I can’t fit Yuwu on this list too, and I just want to loop them together. It’s time travel fixit fic, but it’s the book! Yes????? I love this. I love the striking character growth we get to see, and the changing perception of the world as the main character relives through events he already experienced and sees things in a new light, and I adore how Mo Ran’s growing guilt goes hand in hand with his growing love. And Meatbun in general... like, my god. I haven’t read another author who’s able to yank me through emotional whiplash so hard and fast. She makes me hoot with laughter one moment and then burst into tears the next. It’s absolutely wild. I love mxtx, and I think svsss/tgcf are gentler entry points into the genre and deal with lighter themes, but meatbun is seriously an UNBELIEVABLE writer if you can deal with the darker topics she covers.

Second favorite: The Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System :V Look, I love it. I just love it. I love, again, characters dealing with the aftereffects of old trauma, plus I do also love seeing NEW trauma piled on top of it. I love having a main character with emotional dysregulation issues who doesn’t necessarily make good decisions, but doesn’t just leave me thinking ‘jfc what an asshole’, and I think that’s a really hard balance for an author to strike, especially without us getting direct pov. I love themes of being wanted and insecurity about being wanted, which is Luo Binghe’s major, major damage. And this is my first transmigration story I ever read, and the contrast between a main character who read the novel telling us about what’s totally going to happen versus the ground shifting under his feet is INCREDIBLY delightful to me. I’ve read other transmigration stories I enjoyed, but none that got my attention quite as much as this one.

First favorite: Tian Guan Ci Fu ;u; It’s so good. It’s so well-made! It’s so LONG, and it meanders, but also, I would scream if anyone tried to trim anything out of it. I am here a lot for the ship, honestly, but I also find the plot themes VERY interesting. I am very much here for reading about characters trying to process old trauma that’s been dredged up by new events, and also very here for the themes about how characters either pass their traumas along to the next generation, or try to shield the next generation from taking the same kind of damage (see: mdzs). And I’m also very much into tempering stories about pain with like... memories of kindness, and small acts of kindness repaid with an outpouring of devotion (see: svsss). But the craftsmanship in this book is just... DIVINE. I’m always reluctant to start rereading this one, because I have a terrible time stopping. There’s nothing about this book that I don’t like.

[xiyao-feels]

new tu and xiyao fan from earlier. i searched ao3 as per your suggestion and there's only 500 or so fics for them. :( however, i do have a legit question - what are the differences between mdzs and tu (i've never read the latter). and if you want expand on nieyao (or xiyao) please feel free! i love reading meta! one of the few reasons i miss old school fandom spaces lol. thank you!! :D

Hmmm, I see about eight hundred if I limit to English? But I take your point! But that was just as a way to start; once you do find an author you like, you can look at their bookmarks, for example. (Also I'm not sure if you're familiar with the AO3, but if not, sorting by kudos when doing a general search is a way to get stuff that at least lots of people thought was good. I'm not saying it's perfect, but when you're starting in a fandom it can be better than the default by-date-updated.)

Also I'll take the opportunity to plug my absolute favourite xiyao author, roquen. I didn't mention them last time because they haven't I believe written a post-canon fixit, and you should know that they're mostly sticking to MDZS instead of CQL canon, although with some sprinkling of CQL elements and characterization. Some particular favourites of mine include their AtLA AU and their Sunshot/on the run fics (both series with a couple of short fics), their what you might call a mid-temple hopeful fix-it (divergence where LWJ strikes to kill and LXC takes the blow), the baby LXC fic ("Lan Xichen reverts to being a fifteen-year-old junior, and immediately gets an epic crush on Lianfang-zun"; disclaimer that I was fairly involved with the creation of this one but it's GREAT) and, of course, above all, their gigantic canon fix-it verse, it's worth it every time. It's SO GOOD and the characterization is fantastic and the prose is excellent and UGH. It's so good!!!!! Disclaimer that the second fic in the series, which is the main work, is still WIP, but roquen updates regularly and there are only a couple of chapters left; if you're still wary of WIPs, I'd at least recommend the first fic, which stands alone and is brilliant in its own right.

As to the differences between MDZS and CQL…ho boy. There are quite a few, both major and minor, and I'm by no means familar with all of them—especially the ones that don't involve 3zun, lol. I tried to google around but unfortunately the ones I found tended to be either short or, if more in-depth, contain inaccuracies about JGY/LXC—I think people tend to be more interested in the Wangxian, and then this stuff goes by the wayside. The wiki can be a good source for differences for specific incidents, and although I think it's not always accurate it /does/ usually cite chapter or episode, which can be pretty helpful. 

This, by hualiann, looks like a good overview, though I'd add that JYL, WQ and WN didn't study at Cloud Recesses in the novel and that more generally MDZS has a lot of actual undead.

In general my advice is to take things people say about the novel with a large grain of salt, myself included. And about CQL, too! I have no idea if this is you but when I joined the fandom, if people asserted stuff about CQL I tended to just kind of take it as fact—oh, I thought, I must have misremembered! My memory is pretty terrible, and honestly there was absolutely stuff I did misremember. But also sometimes other people misremember, or fanon gets taken as canon, and then there's stuff like—I mean, I'm certainly not going to blame people for not realizing that "JGY conspired with XY at the Unclean Realm" is a lot more uncertain than you might guess at first, especially if they're more Wangxian focused which most people in the fandom are, but I'm still not going to present it as straight-up fact. (veliseraptor has a recent post examining this here which I would very much recommend).

Honestly I think I'd recommend reading the MDZS NMJ Empathy flashback—chapters 48, 49, and the beginning of 50. That gets you a lot of the JGY, LXC and NMJ backstory, and then you can compare for yourself! I'm also going to recommend Mercy's thread, here, listing common fanons about MDZS (I will add to the list, since it's a bugbear of mine, the idea that LXC recognized NMJ's fierce corpse by his abs).

Okay with all that out of the way, and in no particular order, Sun's extremely idiosyncratic and particularly- aka mostly JGY-focused differences list:

-In MDZS, LXC doesn't become Sect Leader until the burning of Cloud Recesses by the Wen, when his father is injured and then succumbs to his wounds. In CQL, he's Sect Leader from the beginning of the show, his father having apparently died not too long before the show started.

-In MDZS, MY wasn't working for the Nie at all before the beginning of Sunshot; he joined the Nie forces just after Sunshot began. NMJ didn't instantly promote him to be his deputy when he's telling at the Nie men for bad-mouthing him; it takes a few more encounters and/or battles with the Wen (after which MY clears the battlefield and helps the commoners).

-In MDZS, xiyao's first meeting happens when LXC is on the run with the Lan books after the burning of Cloud Recesses. We don't see it happen on the page, and we don't know any details of that time beyond, like, MY helped LXC.

-NMJ willingly sends MY away from the Nie, with a letter of recommendation for JGS, after, uh, an extended overhearing of a conversation between MY and LXC wherein MY's desire to be recognized by his father and gain a proper place in the Jin, the opportunity offered for that by JGS recruiting talent at Langya, and the possible difficulty of obtaining permission from NMJ are all established. 

-NMJ sees MY stabbing a /Jin/ captain, at Langya, after he goes looking for MY. Rather than taking a blow for NMJ, MY stabs himself, faking suicide, then immobilizes NMJ (who's trying to save his life) and flees. This is because NMJ wants MY to go turn himself in for killing the captain; MY thinks they'll kill him, while NMJ says that if the captain has actually been mistreating MY as MY said, MY won't be killed. Personally I think that all the evidence suggests that MY is right, and NMJ is blind to the effects of his position to the extent it's a not insignificant moral failure.

-Okay, so, you know how in CQL MY stabs WRH while he's distracted with WWX, outside on the steps with the Sunshot alliance right outside? In /MDZS/, they're in the Sun Palace, WWX isn't anywhere near the place, he does it to save NMJ's life, and then he starts lugging NMJ's unconscious body out of the palace. And then NMJ comes to consciousness amd demands his sabre and tries to kill him. He likely only survives because of NMJ's wounds, and if LXC hadn't shown up (responding to a message MY sent for aid for NMJ) NMJ might easily have killed him. If you want a more in-depth analysis, I take a close look here in my response to someone's, er, imaginative interpretation of NMJ and JGY's relationship in MDZS.

-In CQL, NMJ's qi deviation happens at the stairs incident. In MDZS, it happens later, when he overhears JGY being upset to LXC about how NMJ treated him at the stairs, and, overcome with rage that JGY would dare (arguably in combination with being polite and pleasant to NMJ's face, although the last time he was confrontational to NMJ's face NMJ kicked him down the stairs and tried to kill him so), he kicks open the door and tries to kill him. He also kills several people as he's qi deviating (seeing them as JGY—while in CQL he also sees several JGYs they seem to be just illusions), and injures NHS.

-In MDZS, NMJ sets fire to all of NHS' nice things. I don't think we're told either way in CQL, although it's worth noting that in MDZS this happens after the stairs (and before JGY starts playing for him again). (I think they do something in FJ?? But I don't take FJ as canon for CQL; see confusion-and-more's post here).

-In CQL, JGY suggests to NMJ that he's always played the corrupted Clarity for him (though granted this is in Empathy, so it's hard to say for sure if this is what he actually said, but in any case it's the only version we're given). In MDZS, it's strongly indicated that JGY only started playing Turmoil for NMJ /after/ the stairs—there's a variety of evidence, but I think the most objective is that WWX, who in MDZS Empathy can literally feel NMJ's anger, actually observes it working beforehand:

Since [JGY started playing for NMJ], Jin GuangYao would travel from Lanling to Qinghe every few days, playing Sound of Lucidity to help quell Nie MingJue rage. He tried his hardest, without speaking even a single word of complaint. Sound of Lucidity was indeed effective. Wei WuXian could clearly feel that the hostile energy within Nie MingJue was being suppressed.

(Exiled Rebels translation, ch. 49)

And then the next scene is the stairs incident, so.

-In general, the degree to which JGY's position is completely awful is played down in CQL. confusion-and-more talks about it a bit here; I'd also note that some of JGY's dialogue defending himself is removed ( “Some trivial achievements?” He spoke in a shaking voice, “…What do you mean, some trivial achievements? ChiFeng-Zun, do you know how much work I put into such trivial achievements? How much I suffered? Glory? Without the handful of glory I have nothing!”, for example), we don't hear about his mother at the guqin scene, the temple flashback where his mother is dragged naked outside by a client and he's kicked down the brothel stairs is eliminated, etc etc.

-There is absolutely no second flutist in MDZS; also JGY tells us in the temple that QS was already pregnant before he found out about the incest. I think even in CQL it's questionable whether he actually intended to kill Zixuan (see this whole conversation), and significant unveiling or no CQL never actually says QS wasn't pregnant before their marriage so I tend to go with that too, but certainly it's easy to walk away with the impression that he definitely did both deliberately, especially if you aren't familiar with the novel.

-(In general, I think CQL JGY is a lot more sympathetic than most people think once you look closely, but he's also very much set up to look upon a more casual watching as Villain, so.)

-In CQL it's All A-Yao All The Time but in MDZS we see LXC calling him san-di after the sworn brotherhood, and then it's back to A-Yao in the present day (see my last addition on this chain here).

-In MDZS, JGY doesn't shove JL out of the way of the incoming attack.

-The LXC lifting JGY out of his bow thing is from CQL

-The watchtowers! Oh /man/ the watchtowers. God the watchtowers are so much. Uh, confusion-and-more has a post about how much they're mentioned in MDZS vs CQL here, and see my last addition to this thread for an argument that the watchtowers were indeed a force for good. God. Twelve hundred watchtowers. He must have saved so many lives...

-confusion-and-more's watchtower post also reminds me that CQL has the Guanyin temple giving out medicine, while MDZS does not

-The episode 23 scene where Sect Leaders Jin, Nie, and Lan agree to spare some of the Wen doesn't exist in MDZS (though I'll take the opportunity to observe that I disagree with popular interpretations of that scene, see point three here).

-In MDZS NMJ's fierce corpse is literally trying to kill JGY, there's no saber spirit. And like, it's been trying to kill JGY for a long damn time, that's why JGY dismembered him.

-The XY plotline—in MDZS, JGY recommends a young XY (who at thay point has a reputation but is not known to have committed any massacres) as a Jin cultivator, as part of an effort by JGS to recreate the Yin Tiger Seal. JGS has multiple people trying, but most of them aren't getting anywhere and XY is getting furthest. It's during this time that XY kills the Chang clan, and is discovered as guilty by XXC, who brings up the evidence at a conference happening in Lanling; the Jin are stalling, MMJ gets angry and shows up, he almost kills XY on the spot and gives JGS a lecture such that he's forced to relent and sentence XY to death (and incidentally scares JGY, imho quite seriously, while he's at it). Then JGS turns it into life imprisonment once NMJ has left, and then NMJ is extremely angry and attacks JGY at the stairs. (Ch. 30 and 118)

-I mentioned before but I'll add it here too: in CQL JGY asks LXC to stay and die with him, and LXC agrees.

-The CQL ending in general is...hmmm. Despite having most of the elements which complicate MDZS' ending (JL is in a terrible position!), it kind of presents as...happy ending all is fixed now? In MDZS I think it's presented as—more complicated, even though Wangxian do very much get their happy ending.

-Also LWJ is a lot less. uh. Okay, so in CQL he's more Mr Morality, and in MDZS it's much more Wei Ying Right Or Wrong. Also, he doesn't become Chief Cultivator in MDZS! I think that's my least favourite change, because it's like...LWJ hates politics, hates compromise, and never attends the cultivation conferences. At least one of 'this is going to be a major diisaster' and 'LWJ is going to have to go through some significant shifts in his worldview and approach' are going to have to happen, but that's not the vibe CQL gives off at all, and I think it really works against some of the major themes of the text :/

-OH RIGHT I knew I was forgetting something—in MDZS MXY's revenge is focused solely on the Mo; JGY is not part of the curse.

Okay I don't want to go too much on about xiyao or nieyao, because this is already quite long and I don't want you to be waiting forever, but broadly although I certainly think NMJ cares about JGY a great deal it seems to be about his competence and potential; he doesn't really seem to, like, actually like who he is as a person. JGY, meanwhile, is at first very grateful to and then increasingly exasperated by and very much fucking terrified of NMJ, but...well, he doesn't seem to be into him or interested in spending time with him for the sake of it or etc etc.

On the other hand—xiyao. Man, xiyao!!!! They just—they get each other so fast, they're /partners/, they work together so well, they like and they respect each other, they're both like—LXC and MS are on their own tier for JGY, LWJ and JGY are on their own tier for LXC, they're for each other in a way neither is for anyone else, they care a lot about the same things—it's not perfect overlap, obviously, but it's more overlap I think than either has with anyone else, they—invest, they're builders, JGY was planning the watchtowers project from way back and although I have no doubt he was driving it LXC was with him and!!!! ugh!!!!! xiyao are REALLY GREAT, okay.